A few questions about converting

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anthonypool89

anthonypool89

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Aug 26, 2016
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Berks County, PA
Not sure how much longer I can cope with these short filter cycles. Most recent one lasted less than a day - a starting increase of 13.5 to 22 from Sunday morning till that same evening. Unprecedented except for when the pool is first opened and requiring lots of DE to clear it up. So it really brings to mind the idea of converting.

A few questions and/or concerns:

1) Given that I've decided on NOT wanting to drain at this time - (for one thing - no idea where the water table is after some heavy thunderstorms of late and now the tropical storm, and for another thing - everything I read says not to do it during hot summer weather) - I'd like to know thoughts on still converting this summer yet without draining.

2) As explained in several of my recent threads, I've had this toxic mix of baqua chemicals going on that have been generating fumes. It was a lot better but then got worse again after adding 2 pints of biguanide this past Sunday. Seems a bit better today again but could be due to all the rain dilution. I've already done two "mini drains" over the past few weeks by pumping the pool down to the bottom of the skimmer.

3) Given #2, what are the thoughts on converting? At this point - if continuing with baqua, I really should add oxidizer. The level has gradually been coming down from a high of 55 on July 16 to 15 today. It'd be time to add more BUT I'm almost afraid to. Will it just generate more fumes? I've never had this problem with any baqua chemicals. As for Oxidizer, I haven't added any since 7/15 - same for CDX. I suppose this (not having made any recent additions) doesn't really help to make the conversion process go any easier since the entire pool is "baqua" for the past 6 years. Not sure how much it matters that the level is lower at this point., but just thought I'd mention it being that usually I add Oxidizer ever few days and CDX once weekly. That hasn't been the case since adding the Line Cleaner on 7/15.

4) If I'd start adding chlorine, what will happen (and I don't mean the color changes and the beginning of the breakdown of oxidizer)? I'm referring to the potential for even more fumes. I have no idea what is going on with this water and have been trying to get some thoughts on it from various sources. So...given the situation...would this even be a good time to start adding yet more chemicals OR will it start to neutralize whatever IS causing the fumes and odor? I don't want to create a situation that makes things worse and requires a gas mask to even get close enough to do anything.

5) Given the issues with the filter short cycling - and how it is reported that during the conversion process there WILL be work with backwashing the filter - is it even feasible to convert with this highly unusual situation? If the pressure goes up so fast with the water being clear these past few months - what will happen once the baqua "goo" starts to appear?

6) What is the likelihood that a conversion will even correct these filter issues? If there are unknown organics in the water - will the chlorine take care of them?

6) With all of the above - what would be best- still convert with the remaining 8 weeks of the season, or wait till spring? There are just so many unknowns taking place this season that I have no answers for. I will say that, since using the Line Clean, there has been no sign of white water mold at all. But without adding oxidizer that surely won't last. Thanks for any thoughts. I know the advice would be to drain, but I've decided against that.
 
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With a 1 day filter demand like that you are kinda inbetween a rock and a hard place. The Baqua-goo will ironically have you cleaning your filter too frequently like you seek to remedy. Its a beginning to an end but thats not going to help you mentally during the conversion. Maybe option 3 is to close the pool now and let it dissipate over the winter. You will have to SLAM either way, might as well be half Baqua and half algae in the spring.
 
anthonypool89 said:
1) Given that I've decided on NOT wanting to drain at this time - (for one thing - no idea where the water table is after some heavy thunderstorms of late and now the tropical storm, and for another thing - everything I read says not to do it during hot summer weather) - I'd like to know thoughts on still converting this summer yet without draining.
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You've added so much stuff to the water in your attempt to get baqua working that there's no way you can easily convert the water. I mean, you've even said your water is so messed up that it fumes!

Don't set yourself up for failure right out of the gate, replace as much of the water as you possibly can. Do that, perform a fairly quick conversion following the TFP guide, and you'll get the rest of your summer. Besides, get your pool up and running via TFPC for the rest of the season and if you somehow aren't happy with it then you have all winter to decide what to do next.
 
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Newdude said:
With a 1 day filter demand like that you are kinda inbetween a rock and a hard place. The Baqua-goo will ironically have you cleaning your filter too frequently like you seek to remedy.
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Exactly what I was thinking. Based on what I'm being told, it sounds like the only feasible way, given the circumstances, is to drain - otherwise it seems that a successful conversion is very likely not to happen. Another option, to help get through the rest of the season - is to just run the pool without the grids, at least for several days at a time . A random element in all this is - what happens when additional oxidizer is added? I'm looking for information that I'm just not finding anywhere such as: 1) exactly why have the filter cycles become so short end of last season and now all of this one? 2) what is the chemical composition of the water that is causing these abnormal reactions? I've talked to Baquacil people and others and it seems that no chemicals have been added to the pool at any time that are not compatible with each other and should resolve. I've been using the same products for the past 3-4 years with never having any fumes - that all started with the addition of Line Cleaner. I just wish there was someone available who could test the water and explain to me what has happened and what can be done to bring it back to a more normal state.

So is draining (or at least major water replacement) now my only option in order to effectively convert?
 
anthonypool89 said:
So is draining (or at least major water replacement) now my only option in order to effectively convert?
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You can fight it with a SLAM and lots more filter cleanings. Or drain and save yourself most of the trouble. You kinda need to be gung-ho about the battle or it will take longer. The more effort you put in the faster it goes. If your spirits are broken and you half-butt it, it will take much longer.
anthonypool89 said:
I just wish there was someone available who could test the water and explain to me what has happened and what can be done to bring it back to a more normal state.
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This is the downfall to the Baqua as you know. If you could test it, you'd be able to prove something. Good bad or ugly you would have an answer like we always do. Without an answer its just the definition of insanity..... doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result.
 
How about the "battle" of converting if I'd wait till spring? Less of a battle? And, if doing it in spring would you advise first clearing up the water as I usually do by adding oxidizer? Or go right for a conversion with the green swamp that I usually open up to? It's pretty repulsive - I usually spend a few hours first vacuuming out all the worms, decayed leaves, etc. before even adding the grids and DE. My guess is that I wouldn't add any baqua chemicals. Gotta say, right now my sprits are already more than half-broken. I'm worn out from just trying to keep up since beginning of June. It is mentally and physically draining (pun intended) - probably more mental actually.
 
Waiting will make the Baqua battle easier but you will still have to battle the filter for the rest of this year. The conversion will be a 2 fer 1 that clears your green swamp and whats left of the baqua. No oxidizer, just chlorine.

You will also have to vac out anything that got in over the winter the same as you always do. In our SLAM, as long as crud sits in the pool it uses up chlorine that could be used to kill algae instead. The sooner it goes the sooner all the chlorine fights the algae.
 
Newdude said:
Waiting will make the Baqua battle easier but you will still have to battle the filter for the rest of this year. The conversion will be a 2 fer 1 that clears your green swamp and whats left of the baqua. No oxidizer, just chlorine.

You will also have to vac out anything that got in over the winter the same as you always do. In our SLAM, as long as crud sits in the pool it uses up chlorine that could be used to kill algae instead. The sooner it goes the sooner all the chlorine fights the algae.
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OK...now we're getting somewhere. That's the kind of info I was hoping for to help make the decision. It's now no longer an "if", "would rather not" , or "no interest in converting" that I've been spouting forth over the past few years, but rather a question of "when" given what is happening this season. I simply can't continue on this way. It has become ludicrous and unworkable. Thanks...I believe that's enough to go on for now. Let me deal with the filter. I have brand new grids - just have to assemble them - then will put the other set (that's in the tank now) in filter cleaning solution.

So the plan would be to get the pool cleaned up with the vac, and proceed right to adding chlorine and go from there. LOTS to learn before then, but I have time. I think that's the approach I might go with, unless I wind up taking an axe to the filter in the meantime - a great excuse to try a sand filter??? 🤔 My pool store would eat that one up - been coaxing me to do that for the past few years.

BUT..what if I still wind up getting short filter cycles and fumes?? I'm hoping that both of these would be highly unlikely. I realize no guarantees with anything.

Let me ask one more thing, then I'm done.....what would be your advice on what to add yet this season? I'm very hesitant to add any more oxidizer since the last time I did that it generated more fumes (after they had all cleared up) Adding the recent sanitizer restarted the fumes - otherwise I figured I was done with that. Making it through the rest of the season with ONLY the filter problems would be a lot easier if I also didn't have the fumes issue. The two problems together are a nightmare.
 
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anthonypool89 said:
BUT..what if I still wind up getting short filter cycles and fumes?? I'm hoping that both of these would be highly unlikely. I realize no guarantees with anything.
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There will only be chlorine smells if you let the water get sketchy and the chlorine needed to kill stuff in it. That would be your fault for being complacent in maintaining the water. Once the chlorine did its thing, the smell is gone.

The same goes for short filter cycles. You would have the start of an algae bloom if it ever happened again after the conversion. But here is the BEST part. You could test, get reliable results, AND KNOW what to do about it.

I don't know much about the sizing on sand/DE filters but if you end up buying a new one, go big. It is the backbone of the operation and people try to save a few hundred dollars with 'big enough'. In good times it may be true, but not when you have a problem, then its clean it 10X more.
anthonypool89 said:
.what would be your advice on what to add yet this season
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That one I can't even begin to guess, sorry.
 

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CR....thanks. Some quick research revealed a TFP link (from '17) to this procedure. I looked at the pictures the guy posted, but aren't quite clear on how this works. First of all, I don't have a 34' long tarp. My pool cover would be of no use since it's mesh.
 
Newdude said:
The ability to test your chlorine pool after the conversion. Once you leave Baqua you’ll be able to test it and know what’s going on to correct it.
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OK...figured you were probably referring to FC tests, etc. I assume my Taylor K-2006 can do whatever I'd need for chlorine testing - just never used that portion of the kit before. I have to put together the new grids and assy and then get that in the filter - be interesting to see what any difference might be in starting pressure and filter cycle length. Then my other grid assembly (how many people actually have two full DE grid assemblies, right?? Can you say a touch of OCD?) goes in the cleaning fluid. Pool store still wants me to get rid of the DE filter and go to sand - says it'll "cure all my problems" (relative to the idea of continuing with baqua at any rate).
 
You would want a decently oversized tarp and they are cheap at various Harbor Freight/ Northern Tool type places.
 
anthonypool89 said:
I assume my Taylor K-2006 can do whatever I'd need for chlorine testing - just never used that portion of the kit before
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You are correct but the kits are only good for 2 years or so. If it’s been sitting on the shelf collecting dust longer than that you need a new one.
 
Yes. All of the regents need replacing around 2 years. The ones you are currently still using have probably been replaced sooner than the ones that you didn’t need. Unless you bought the whole kit new each time. Then they are the same age and still good.
 
I just replace reagents as they get low. Usually order right from Taylor. The chlorine reagents, obviously, I've not used at all. Thanks for mentioning it. Another item to add to my list - might as well wait till closer to spring to get new ones (unless I still decide to drain and do this before closing yet- as I dither over this the more weeks go by, the less advantageous it almost appears).

What are your thoughts, if any, on just backwashing for a minute or so and then adding DE - rather than always taking apart the tank? I did a quick experiment the other day. After backwashing (for a long time on Sunday morning - wanted to get the water level down since otherwise the pool would have overflowed later in the day), I restarted the filter and pressure was already at 15. Then, taking the tank apart and hosing off the grids made it a bit below 14. Not a great difference. With the way the filter cycles are going, probably not a big deal either way - just trying to save some time and work if indeed I do decide to finish the season this way. Still contemplating just taking the grids out for a few days at a time and just running the pump / filter tank as a circulator.
 
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anthonypool89 said:
yet- as I dither over this the more weeks go by, the less advantageous it almost appears
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It’s a catch-22 for sure. The longer you keep up the current fight, The sooner it is until closing, But also the longer you have faught
:ROFLMAO:
Whattayagonnado?????
 

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