Florida Build - Final Critiques Welcome!!

[matthewsunshineflorida]

BACK WALL: We’re trying to plan a good way to do the tile for the back wall and spa. We will have a 3-4ft waterfall in the center, so I want the wall to really pop.

I think we're going to do a cream/beige paver in panorama demi much like this except random pattern instead of brick:


We're doing Cadet Blue for the finish:


So see how the photo above has a stone back wall with two waterfalls? I feel like that doesn't pop as much as tile would since the deck is lighter.

So I really want to emulate that first image and do bold blues which I think will make the waterfall pop.

We're okay with grey and faint teal undertones to give it character so if you have any other tiles you guys like, we'd love to hear about it!

Ideas so far:

1. Blue Grey Waterline, Blue Porcelain 1x2s with Blue Porcelain 6” strip with 3 accents
   Waterline: Mastertile MAS PER COB 6
   Spa/Wall: Mastertile MAS ISO SIC 1x2 up for 6 inches then MAS ISO SIC 6 strip with MAS ISO SIC DECO then another 6 inches of the 1x2s
   ISO SIC OTHER PHOTO
   Photoshop image (keep in mind I only had one tile repeated over and over so it will look more natural, also the spa would have the same 1x2s)
   
   
   
2. Blue Waterline, Mid Blue 1x2s all the way up (no photoshop for this one)
   Waterline: Mastertile MAS PER COB 6
   Spa/Wall: Mastertile 1x2 tile aim gw 82348 b11
   ISO COB OTHER PHOTO
   COBALTO OTHER PHOTO
   
   
3. Lighter Blue With Teal Undertones (no photoshop for this one)
   Waterline: Mastertile CRZ BAR COB 6
   Spa/Wall: ES Royal1x2
   ISO COB OTHER PHOTO
   COBALTO OTHER PHOTO

Also, I'm waiting to hear back about adding returns/skimmers as well as upsizing the filter. Let me know if you had any other thoughts about the main drain you mentioned

 

[bmoreswim]

I agree that you definitely want a color variance from deck to tile. We don't have it and it's my least favorite aspect. If you are unsure, going with one style of tile for waterline and raised walls is usually a safer choice than mixing unless you are certain. I really like look of the top pic in your above post.

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

***CALLING ALL EQUIPMENT GURUS***

CLEAN AND CLEAR FILTER

• Here were our quotes going from Clean and Clear Plus 200sqft with a 12k pool/spa to:
• 320: $392 ($3.20 per extra sqft via 392/(320-200))
• 420: $527 ($2.40 per extra sqft)
• 520: $796 ($2.48 per extra sqft)
• Worth it? I'm thinking CC420 or just stick with the 200. Will our pump last longer because of less resistance, pool be filtered better, less cleaning maintenance etc etc?

SKIMMER:

1. Adding a second skimmer adds $668. Truly worth it for 30x14 12k gallons or nah?
2. Should I ask about second main drain or not worth it?
3. We have 3 returns listed. Covered enclosure, no trees over the patio except some small palms when we get them in.

WATER FEATURES AND PUMPS:

• For a 24" waterfall and a bubbler, we are being quoted a Superflo 3/4hp for $724.
• If we want to go to a 36" waterfall (which I really think we need at least 3ft or two 2 footers), it's $100 more but they recommend going to a 1.5hp Superflow VS for $721 more.
• The $724 3/4hp is a $325 pump charging $724, then the 1.5hp superflow vs is $680 charging $1445 they're taking an extra $400 in profit vs the 3/4hp on something that takes no more effort to install?
• Alternatively, we could do two two 2ft waterfalls and it would be $560 more (vs $100 more) plus obviously the 1.5hp pump so $1280 more.
• I'm reading from some websites that because our sunshelf is 10-12" deep, we might need to oversize our pump to really get meaningful water movement. Wondering if we should just go to a 3hp VSP, then we would be able to control the flow dynamically in the app too

BENCH BANDING TILE:

• We're being charged $234 for 23ft of 2" banding tile, so you figure that's 12" / 2" = 6 so $60.40/sqft lol fine... anyway, when we asked them to quote doing it in the spa as well, they quoted $600. Just for banding tile around the seats. In a 6x7 spa. Meaning the inner diameter is probably 3ft i.e. $60/ft for about 10 linear feet of tile 2" wide i.e. 12 / 2 is $360/sqft?! What the heck? I pulled it off our quote because that's obviously not worth it?!

WATERLINE, SPILLOVER, AND WALL TILE:

1. After reading so many horror stories with glass tiles fracturing, falling off, leaking, after just 1-10 years (even Mastertile and NPT), we're leaning heavily toward doing all porcelain which seems to do better all around.
2. I think we're going to do something like MAS PER COB 6 for the waterline then, for the back row, a 6" row of MAS ISO SIC 1x2 , then a row of MAS ISO SIC 6, finishing with another row of MAS ISO SIC 1x2 on the top.
3. For the spa waterline, we will do the same as the 6" middle row tile on the back wall MAS ISO SIC 6 because it's raised 12" and would line up perfectly with that middle 6" row.
4. For the spa spillover, we will do all MAS ISO SIC 1x2 since that will line up with where it is on the back wall.
5. I'm thinking cream colored grout?

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

Also, are the lighted bubblers worth almost $1k extra? Some of you have pointed out that 2 microbrites might not be quite enough, our options would be to add a 3rd, do some enclosure lighting, or what if we just made the sunshelf bubbler lighted? Are they a PITA and not worth the hassle (especially if they break?) Or are they essential for you guys that have them? It WOULD be a cool look with our design, but $1k is a big price on an already expensive project. Thoughts?

 

[kimkats]

With you having a cage I would get the next size up and call it go on the filter.
-one skimmer due to the cage
-one main drain due to the cage and no real need for another one. I WOULD get this kind: Channel Pebble Top Drain Covers — Color Match Pool Fittings

We're being charged $234 for 23ft of 2" banding tile,

nyway, when we asked them to quote doing it in the spa as well, they quoted $600. Just for banding tile around the seats. In a 6x7 spa. Meaning the inner diameter is probably 3ft i.e. $60/ft for about 10 linear feet of tile 2" wide i.e. 12 / 2 is $360/sqft?!

OUCH!!! why??? I would have to ask about that one!

we're leaning heavily toward doing all porcelain which seems to do better all around.

Like all of your pics. You will have a little work to do when they get there. You will want to open up the boxes and look at them. Some will be extra pretty and you will want to use them in the areas where your eyes fall as you walk out of the house. Then there wll be some that you will want to hide as they are not pretty at all LOL

are the lighted bubblers worth almost $1k extra

I don't think bubblers are worth it all. They are a party trick that are not used often. The money would be better used to buy some great pool side furnture!

 

[usfbull]

I like that drain cover! I saw something similar for skimmer cover to match decking but don’t recall where?

Are you saying to not get a bubbler on a sunshelf, or not get a light with a bubbler, or to get neither of them?

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

I don't think bubblers are worth it all.

Are you saying to not get a bubbler on a sunshelf, or not get a light with a bubbler, or to get neither of them?

BUBBLERS
Yea Kim are you referring to the bubbler itself or the LED? The main reason I want the bubbler is to keep the sunshelf circulating with cool water with two chairs next to the bubblers. Adding an LED to the bubbler is about $700. In our design, our lights will point up toward the back of the pool so the steps might get a little light but the sunshelf definitely won't - that's why I'm considering an LED in the bubbler? Another microbrite is about $1k and it still wouldn't help the steps/sunshelf issue.

PAVERS
Also, went to our PB today to pick tile and pavers. We're actually set on Cream/Beige/Charcoal pavers in Panorama Demi or Heritage. Same tile as I mentioned yesterday.

PUMP
So we got this clarified by our PB today, two options:
1) One 3hp pump for the whole system. It would use actuators to turn off the pool/waterfall/bubbler/spillover when the spa turns on so that it's an either/or situation.
2) A separate 1.5hp ($1.5k) or 3hp intelliflo ($2k) to run the bubbler and waterfall.
The benefit of the separate pump:
-We can have it all running at once so we can have the sound of the waterfall, and there would be times when kids might be in the pool while we're in the spa.
-Aesthetic when the spa is heating up or when some are in the spa and some sitting in the patio.
-We don't have to have the water features always on whenever the pool is on, which could rise the PH or whatever.
-With just one, I would have to run the RPMs higher to account for all the water in the waterfall/bubbler even when we aren't out there so somewhat more expensive to run.
-The water feature pump could bypass the filter to save the filter from having such high pressure pushed through it.
-We have a deeper 10-12" sunshelf so we might need a lot of HP to kick that bubbler out of the water.
-Downside is obviously the cost! Huge cost difference. Ridiculous margin on the 3hp pump ($2k for a pump I can get for $900!!! RIPOFF). I thought about having them put in a 3/4hp pump ($720) and upgrading it myself (another $900) instead of $2k but that doesn't even save THAT much.

Intellicenter vs EasyTouch
It's like $900 between the Intellicenter and EasyTouch. However, the intellicenter comes with two intellivalves whereas the easytouch I'm pretty sure we'd have to buy those in order to switch valves in the app, right? I'm also really concerned about intentionally buying old tech that isn't updatable or as expandable - just seems like a strange thing to do when we're paying so much for a new pool. But if you guys think there's no real benefit and I'm paying for one to have a touch screen during setup - I can dump it and save the cash.

Our Design For Reference

 

[kimkats]

You can/should put a return on the shelf. If you put it just right it will "push" all dirt and such off the shelf and circulate the water to keep the shelf water the same temp as the pool temp.

I don't care for bubblers at all as they tend to be nosiy. Now if you have a small child they might have fun playing with them for a while.

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

With you having a cage I would get the next size up and call it go on the filter.
-one skimmer due to the cage
-one main drain due to the cage and no real need for another one. I WOULD get this kind: Channel Pebble Top Drain Covers — Color Match Pool Fittings

We are signing with a PB tomorrow, going with the channel drain and an upsized filter to 420 as you recommended! We've finalized all our tile, pavers, and finishes so I think we're basically done. Contract looks reasonable enough and all the numbers are right, everything itemized properly.

Only thing we didn't do was get a second 3hp pump because it was another $2k and I see them for like $900 so I figure I could always get one myself and install it later? I've done all kinds of plumbing, so it's just a matter of making sure all of them are plumbed all the way back to the equipment pad, right? I assume they would have to be because they said they have to set all the valves differently for each water feature to work right and for the spa/pool mode. Currently, the pool mode will have the waterfall, spa spillover, and bubbler on automatically (which I understand raises the PH so not ideal) and the spa mode turns those off and directs it all to the spa.

I know I need either actuators (intellivalve) and/or a second pump to control those things individually, right? Intellivalve is $400 a pop with them but it's only $200, and the pump had an $1100 markup as well so I decided to keep it simple assuming I can add it later, thoughts?

I don't fully understand how the spa/pool mode even works with intellicenter - let me know if you have a crash course I can read for how all this stuff is plumbed so I can understand how to modify it (and just maintain it).

 

[spd500]

Great design overall, I am jealous of being allowed to screen in your pool. One thing that I didn't notice anyone mention was the fire pit, I would run a gas line instead of wood. We have two fire pits, one gas built in and one wood portable that we can move around. Our gas fire pit is used all the time because it is so quick, easy, and clean to use. The wood fire pit might, maybe, get used once a year and it is always a hassle to drag wood in for it, get it lit, and clean up the mess afterwards. One other thought on it is that it will be inside your screen and the smoke from wood will leave soot deposits on the screen. While they are running the gas for the heater it shouldn't cost much to run gas lines back to where you want the fire pit to be added and just stub a valve for future use.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

Gas line runs tend to be very pricey, but yes, you probably are correct that it will get used more. But I can see why the PB proposed a wood pit....

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

Great design overall, I am jealous of being allowed to screen in your pool. One thing that I didn't notice anyone mention was the fire pit, I would run a gas line instead of wood. We have two fire pits, one gas built in and one wood portable that we can move around. Our gas fire pit is used all the time because it is so quick, easy, and clean to use. The wood fire pit might, maybe, get used once a year and it is always a hassle to drag wood in for it, get it lit, and clean up the mess afterwards. One other thought on it is that it will be inside your screen and the smoke from wood will leave soot deposits on the screen. While they are running the gas for the heater it shouldn't cost much to run gas lines back to where you want the fire pit to be added and just stub a valve for future use.

Gas line runs tend to be very pricey, but yes, you probably are correct that it will get used more. But I can see why the PB proposed a wood pit....

Lol my wife's only non negotiable was that the main fire pit behind the pool waterfall wall be wood burning stone and not gas (just realized that's not on the graphic, we're putting it there). But that other one is actually a gas fire table in the bottom of the photo above in front of the sectional.

However, our 55ft gas run for the heater is already $1k and all that equipment will be on the other side of the house which means the run to where that fire pit is would be like 110ft (24ft just to go up and back down) assuming you take a straight shot through the attic. The gas table would be more like a 70-80ft run but then you'd have to break the existing concrete to get it under ground to where we'd want the table and then you could never move it. The grill will be outside even further away so it would be thousands of dollars to run to those places. So we're just doing propane for the grill and the fire table - we're a mile from the tank swap and I always keep two tanks under the grill anyway so it's really not a big deal.

I do suspect we will use the fire table more because of its convenience, comfortable seating, and location to the TVs. But we love the smell and feel of a wood burning fire so we use that at least a few times a month during our frigid florida winters.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

They do have small directional drillers so it is possible to do that without breaking out the concrete, but it will still be pricey.

 

[spd500]

I used one of these on PVC pipe to tunnel under the driveway when I did french drains and sprinklers, it worked really well.

Walkway Tunnel Kit

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

They do have small directional drillers so it is possible to do that without breaking out the concrete, but it will still be pricey.

I used one of these on PVC pipe to tunnel under the driveway when I did french drains and sprinklers, it worked really well.

Walkway Tunnel Kit

I can't believe I didn't know those water drills exist for so cheap! That is actually really helpful for another project I'm working on. I'd rather be able to move the gas fire table and grill around, and the stone one is required to be wood so especially with the expense I think propane is fine in this case - but I'm definitely using this for some wiring projects to get underneath my walkway! I'll run conduit so I can use it in the future... thanks for the tip guys

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

Well, we just signed up for 5+ months of a dirty mess in our backyard! Thanks to all who have helped, I'll be sure to post pictures as it comes along. Feel free to give any advice for the building process and I know I'll have some pool school to go through. Thanks @kimkats for hanging in there for 2 years - hope you've got another 6 months in ya because I'm sure we'll need experts as this goes along

 

[spd500]

Well, we just signed up for 5+ months of a dirty mess in our backyard! Thanks to all who have helped, I'll be sure to post pictures as it comes along. Feel free to give any advice for the building process and I know I'll have some pool school to go through. Thanks @kimkats for hanging in there for 2 years - hope you've got another 6 months in ya because I'm sure we'll need experts as this goes along

Congratulations !! I will keep an eye out for updates.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

Good luck. If they say 5 months it will be at least 7. It does eventually get done though. I am glad I pointed you to the water tunneler, and I did know that they existed, but there are also small contractor drill based directional drillers as well, and that is what I was referring to, actually. I suspect that here in Arizona a water tunneler will make it about 6 inches a day! In Florida I imagine it would work great. Enjoy!

 

[JayRi]

Well, we just signed up for 5+ months of a dirty mess in our backyard! Thanks to all who have helped, I'll be sure to post pictures as it comes along. Feel free to give any advice for the building process and I know I'll have some pool school to go through. Thanks @kimkats for hanging in there for 2 years - hope you've got another 6 months in ya because I'm sure we'll need experts as this goes along

Congratulations, looks like you've done plenty of research. We just signed a month ago as well. Our permit took all of 4 weeks. We're in Apollo Beach, not sure if you're in Hillsborough or City of Tampa, did they say how long for permitting? Our builder was planning on starting this week but this rain will be causing plenty of delays. I didn't even bother calling because I am also waiting for Frontier to bury the new cable line they had to run.
Jason

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

Congratulations, looks like you've done plenty of research. We just signed a month ago as well. Our permit took all of 4 weeks. We're in Apollo Beach, not sure if you're in Hillsborough or City of Tampa, did they say how long for permitting? Our builder was planning on starting this week but this rain will be causing plenty of delays. I didn't even bother calling because I am also waiting for Frontier to bury the new cable line they had to run.
Jason

Yea I'm in Valrico so Hillsborough County jurisdiction. Glad to hear permitting went so quickly, that's encouraging because I've heard Hillsborough has been backed up with an influx of construction permitting and their people working slower from home. I think we got in on the increasing end of a big pool build push so it sounds like our dig date might be out a bit - we'll see but I'm not holding my breath.

Yea rain is so unpredictable in this area that the weather can be inaccurate a mere hour out. How does it work with the unknown rain factor? Do they schedule the dig on a few day span of no rain and then gunite it immediately?

Let me know if you learn anything during your build you recommend I do. I'm thinking about running conduit in several places next to their plumbing for electric/lights/speakers, trying to think of anything I could possibly want for the future while it's all dug up. Going to take photos of all the plumbing along with measurements so I know exactly where it is under the ground for future reference... I want to make this thing future proof as much as possible...

Good luck. If they say 5 months it will be at least 7.

They said 4-5 and if they somehow finished in 4, we could swim on Christmas so I'm praying for a Christmas miracle but yea you're probably right