Help! CC 8, FC 6.5 in a (don't laugh) 1050ish gallon Summer Waves latex

[Ebburns]

Okay my pool is an easy set, 10FT x 30" (please don't laugh . Before Rona we NEVER thought we'd own a pool well that changed to keep the kids cool this summer. And now we've decided this is our training pool.

I have been trying to learn. So I don't just do anything I'm told by the pool store (well I did initially) to get started but then after being told to shock once per week with free and clear ( sodium mon---sulfate ??) a non- chlorine shock I read somewhere not to use in outdoor pools and it can throw off some reading that had a 3 in it forgive me but you all probably know just what I'm referring to. Well I returned it along with a giant tub of calcium harness (3 lbs) that the guy told me to throw in HALF THE BuCKET and after doing reading I saw where you don't have to worry about adding calcium to latex liner pools then I really started to question this guy and poolology. I went to return what I hadn't opened or used well that didn't turn out very good for me. Lesson learned. Plus the guy was very rude and mean (Leslie's btw) never told me I couldn't return something even though I hesitated when buying

Anyway. I went to a DIFFERENT pool store and got a reading yesterday that I don't know what to do with and from what I've read my kids can't swim now again!! It's now messed up a 2nd time. She told me my pool had FC 6.5 and 8 CC so he tried to sell me the sodium monusulfate stuff and before I go that route I researched it and apparently it only rids the pool of chloramides that are not already formed??? So is this really going to help.

Rewind just a bit I already drained to 2 inches and refilled at the direction of this latest pool store due to when I got there my water was cloudy and apparently I had ammonia in it which she blamed on a possible heavy rain??? So after refilling I tried to shock the pool until the chlorine "stuck" as she called it. And to the best of my understanding I thought I was good. The chlorine was getting down light purple again I chlorinated it that night (dichroic granules btw at 3 Tablesppons), a little lesser amount than i did for the shocks and now this. Please please tell me help me. My stick test looked wonderful today??? However it doesn't have CC on it. Water isn't super cloudy but not super clear I think and they said all my other levels were good. 25 CYA, 7.2 for Alkality and 80 I believe for PH. I might have those two switched around. How do i clear my pool of harmful things. It's like 1000 gallons. Sorry so long. I think I needed a psychiatrist after all this pool drama

 

[Wobblerlorri]

Welcome to TFP! First of all, don't panic! We can help!

Even a little pool is still a pool, and you take care of it just like a bigger pool. In your case, I assume you'll be taking it down at the end of the season, so you'll want to read Guide for Seasonal/Temporary Pools as well as ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry.

Next is, do you want to spend money on a good test kit and take full control of your pool? Or stick with a smaller, cheaper kit that will work for your needs? Either way, you need to ditch the test strips (we call them guess strips for obvious reasons) and pool store testing, which is rarely accurate. Really, you can get by with a Taylor K-1005 kit, then add in the FAS-DPD and CYA kit. That's what I have.

As for your water now, you might be better off draining, scrubbing with diluted bleach, and refilling. Then you can start with fresh, uncontaminated water that hasn't been pool stored to death. Bring your CYA up to 30 - 40, then use PoolMath and FC/CYA Levels to determine how much liquid chlorine you need to add.

You can worry about pH and TA later. This seems like a lot, and I'm sorry. But it's really simple:

1. Do your reading.
2. Preferably drain your pool into a storm drain or something similar.
3. Scrub the pool with a bleach solution.
4. Refill and add CYA to 30 or 40 and enough liquid chlorine aka bleach to bring your FC up to 6 or 7 ppm. Figure this out using PoolMath.
5. Adjust pH and TA.
6. Decide on your test kit.
7. Stay out of pool stores and throw away the guess strips.
8. Come to us with any questions you have.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Msch99]

I would drain and start over. Buy at least the k-2005 test kit with the additions wobblerlorri suggested. Testing isn’t that hard, my 12 year old grandson is doing most of ours now.

stay away from pool stores! . Plenty of experts here to guide you. And their free!

 

[ajw22]

Dump the water, refill, and follow...

Guide for Seasonal/Temporary Pools

Smaller seasonal pools can see just as much enjoyment as their larger counterparts. In this guide we'll show you how to maintain your temporary pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Ebburns]

First thank you so very much for assisting me.. i am reading over the links, and studying the information as well as trying to figure which test to buy. I don't really understand which one or what to buy.

Just a little more back story. I just drained the pool at the 2nd stores, suggestion because there was ammonia?? I don't see any tests for that so I took my sample back to the store a 2nd time and still had it a little? She originally told me it could be dealt with two ways: shock repeatedly until the chlorine stuck (but that could be expensive) OR drain, and refill which I just did last Saturday, shocked with like 4 tablespoons of Dichlor two nights in row. Then the day after there was still a very purple chlorine reading so I went back to the store to double check and she sold me the stabilizer. Even though I'm using Dichlor (which has it in there) which was confusing to me because the first store never suggested to add it separate. So anyway after the 2nd shock and the chlorine seemed to not dissappear so fast and when it faded to the lighter purple 2 days later I put a little less in like what I thought would be more of a maintaining level not a shock amount. So I did 3 Tablespoons. I thought maybe I was good so 3 nights ago after doing that so I took my sample back Saturday and that's when she told me the CC chlorine was 8 and free was 6.5.

So are you all saying there is no way to fix the CC # being higher like that? Because they then tried to have me buy the sodium mon...sulfate (sorry don't have the exact name) but its the non chlorine shock stuff to fix it. But after what I read it seemed that it was saying once chloramides are formed that will NOT remove them? That is my first question. Can that be used to fix this and or should I have that in my toolbox as a weekly shock to prevent this? Is there no way to fix it other than dumping it? I'm tempted to take it back to another store a see if the CC level is still that much higher than FC. Couldn't that just be an indication that my chlorine was still working to kill whatever issue?

If so, where did I go wrong? Okay I did leave like 1 to 2 inches in but she didn't tell me nothing about scrubbing it or cleaning with diluted bleach. So what if people with big pools get a higher combined chlorine # they have to drain and refill too? What went wrong with getting ammonia in the pool and how do i prevent that going forward? The pool manual says to put 1" tablets in the filter, but the 1st store was out of them and told me that I could actually have more control over the chlorine with the granular dichlor. So with me going against the manual I was wondering about that. Also, if I switch to just plain bleach like you guys are saying it doesn't say that in the pool manual either. So it's okay for me to pour bleach in this tiny pool my kids will swim in being so little that scares me but I guess the other stuff is the same thing then sort of?

So my questions are:
- Can the chlorine free shock product fix my issue (like that store was trying to sell me and if not why?
- If I HAVE to dump and scrub it clean then can a miniscule amount of the current water be left in so the pool won't move at all and I get in with a scrub brush to reach it all. One of this huge pool brushes just is too much for this tiny thing? I can't think of what would be best to clean it with.
- The process of shocking doesn't fix this issue?
- after refilled if that is my only option the guide to small pools says add my cya first then the chlorine? And how much how often?
- How do I know whether there is ammonia or any bad stuff?

I just want my kids to be able to swim. Thank you so much for helping me!!

 

[Wobblerlorri]

We can get your chloramines down. High chloramines indicates organic material in your pool. So that's why we're saying drain and brush. People with larger pools don't have to drain, but they do have to brush, to get the algae loosened up and available for the chlorine to act on it.

Drain and brush your pool with a dilute chlorine solution. Rinse it out, and drain out the dirty water. Rinse it again. Then fill and add 30 - 40 ppm stabilizer, and 6 ppm bleach (liquid chlorine). Brush it around to disperse it and mix together. Use PoolMath to figure out how much to add.

You need a test kit which will test CYA (stabilizer) and FC (free chlorine). With a little pool like yours, I'd suggest getting an HTH 6 way test kit and add on the FAS-DPD chlorine test. The kits we normally recommend run upwards of $100 -- the HTH kit is $13 at Wal-Mart and the FAS-DPD kit is about $25 on Amazon.

You'll know you have ammonia if your stabilized chlorine doesn't hold. If that happens, I'd just dump the pool, but it's rare.

Do you have a pump and filter on your pool? If so, run it about 3 - 4 hours a day.

Dump and clean, rinse, then drain out the dirty water. Fill and add CYA and chlorine. Brush it around to mix it well. Test FC daily with the FAS-DPD test and add more chlorine as needed to keep it around 6 ppm. If you stick to this, your pool will stay crystal clear and sanitary.

And let the kids swim!

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

I have a 14K gal in ground pool and a 250 gallon hot tub. The hot tub is far more touchy on the chemistry than the pool. SO your little pool can be good training. Treat it like my 14K Gallon pool and you will have less issues. (Proper test kit, TFP methods, etc.) The nice thing about a little pool like that is that starting over with a drain and refill isn't as bad. At the end of the lifespan of the initial fill on the hot tub it got to the point it was hard to control, so 3 hours later I had drained and refilled it and I was back off to the races. 250 gallons... You can't do that with a big pool...

And with 1000 gallons, it is actually meant as a seasonal pool anyway... so you will have to drain and refill faster than a bigger pool. I'd say at least once a year probably twice.

BTW, Wal-Mart hasn't had the 6 way HTH kit this year in Arizona. It would be interesting to see if it is being carried elsewhere. You might get away without the CYA test on a 1000 gal pool IF you religiously follow TFP and are very careful initially setting up the CYA in the pool...TF-100 or K-2006 really is what you want. even for that little pool.

 

[Ebburns]

We can get your chloramines down. High chloramines indicates organic material in your pool. So that's why we're saying drain and brush. People with larger pools don't have to drain, but they do have to brush, to get the algae loosened up and available for the chlorine to act on it.

Drain and brush your pool with a dilute chlorine solution. Rinse it out, and drain out the dirty water. Rinse it again. Then fill and add 30 - 40 ppm stabilizer, and 6 ppm bleach (liquid chlorine). Brush it around to disperse it and mix together. Use PoolMath to figure out how much to add.

You need a test kit which will test CYA (stabilizer) and FC (free chlorine). With a little pool like yours, I'd suggest getting an HTH 6 way test kit and add on the FAS-DPD chlorine test. The kits we normally recommend run upwards of $100 -- the HTH kit is $13 at Wal-Mart and the FAS-DPD kit is about $25 on Amazon.

You'll know you have ammonia if your stabilized chlorine doesn't hold. If that happens, I'd just dump the pool, but it's rare.

Do you have a pump and filter on your pool? If so, run it about 3 - 4 hours a day.

Dump and clean, rinse, then drain out the dirty water. Fill and add CYA and chlorine. Brush it around to mix it well. Test FC daily with the FAS-DPD test and add more chlorine as needed to keep it around 6 ppm. If you stick to this, your pool will stay crystal clear and sanitary.

And let the kids swim!

Yes my pump is a RX600 with a cartridge filter type D. I rinse clean every couple days (they are out of stock everywhere!). I have 5 way strips they just don't show calcium hardness which from what I've read I don't need to worry about in this latex pool? Do I really need to buy the 6 way or is it that the HTH are of a better quality. I just looked at the Taylor k006 and it appears to have the fAS-DPD with it for $84. Does that sound right. Should I just buy that one. Any brushes / types recommended for these tiny pools. I don't know what to use.

So when you say liquid chlorine/bleach is that either/or so I can use either one or I should just go buy bleach? Can I buy the generic bleach? I already have a large thing of dichlor which is supposed to have my cya in it so do I really have to stop using what I've already paid for.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

The TF-100 (tftestkits.net) and the K-2006 are the standard kits that people here use to keep consistency when helping out people with issues. It takes a big variable out of the equation. The TF-100 has the same chemicals, proportioned out in TFP method amounts. Bought in bulk from Taylor, and repackaged by a small business. Good stuff overall. But here goes:

This is an agree to disagree statement, not sanctioned by TFP:

I suspect-- except for CYA measurements, you can go and get away with the "5" way kit at Home Depot for your little pool. It's only really a 3-way kit, but the OTO chlorine, pH and TA tests are consistent with the Taylor's. The FAS-DPD allows you much finer readout for Chlorine and will read more than the about 5 PPM the OTO tests will. There is a trick you can do to measure >5 PPM on an OTO kit when waiting for a FAS-DPD test. Using the OTO test, Take water from a RO system, or use bottled Distilled water.. Cut the pool water by a known fraction. On the Taylor kit 2/5 pool to 3/5 Distilled/RO works well. On the Home Depot/Ace/PoolMaster test half and half works okay. You then measure and divide by the fraction that is the pool water amount. This works but is only accurate to maybe +/- 1 PPM. This kit is about $12 and can get you going until you get the real one. I use that kit to double check my readings from the other one. It makes me feel better, what can I tell you...

The HTH 6 way kit was a kit that had Taylor chemicals in it. You used to be able to buy it at Walmart for about $20. Maybe in some places you still can. It's not been here in Arizona this season. It didn't have nearly enough CYA reagent in it to do more than a couple of CYA tests, however. you could order a bottle of CYA reagent from Taylor for that kit though and it would work, and it was still overall a bargain, though the half price of it at the time meant you were getting 1/2 the chemicals too by volume.

But if you want to wait on the $72 kit from TF-test kits or $84 from... what, Amazon? Buy the TF-100 if so, the chemicals are proportioned out correctly in the TF-100 for TFP methods... you aren't wasting much in buying the Home Depot kit in the meantime.

No CYA test in that kit though. So you will need to calculate the CYA from what you add after you refill. It's pretty doable and accurate if you are careful on how you do it...

I can clarify more if needed, but even that little HD kit is many times better than the best strips are. I would trust your TA, pH and FC numbers from that kit. CC can be inferred (it will turn darker if it sits for more than a couple of minutes and you have CC's, but the amount is ??? always), but to really do that correctly you do need the FAS-DPD with the chemicals to titrate the CC's out.

Hopefully you are starting to understand this. There is "double check the pool guy" level of tests like strips and the HD/PoolMaster kit, and then there is "be better than the pool guy". That is what the K-2006/TF-100 is. It's worth the money in avoiding frustration later. And I use them in my 250 gallon detached hot tub just like the big pool. The volume of the pool here doesn't matter for testing. It, of course does for chemical additions, and this is why PoolMath is such a useful tool as well.

 

[ajw22]

This is an agree to disagree statement, not sanctioned by TFP:

FYI, what you describe is largely sanctioned by TFP and described in the seasonal pool link I provided in post #4.

Guide for Seasonal/Temporary Pools

Smaller seasonal pools can see just as much enjoyment as their larger counterparts. In this guide we'll show you how to maintain your temporary pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Wobblerlorri]

As I say in my signature, I use the Taylor K -1005 and added on the TF Test Kits CYA test and the Taylor K-1515-A FAS-DPD kit. That's because I'm too poor to not use a perfectly good kit I had just bought when I found TFP. So I added on. It works, and gives TFP -approved results.

By the way, the HTH kit I found was through Wal-Mart online. I see now they're out of stock.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

I meant the Home Depot/Ace/PoolMaster kit for going against TFP "regulations". I am well aware this isn't necessarily intended but in practice it does seem to be followed. The three tests it does are as accurate as the Taylor kit. I like their TA test better as it goes from purple to clear instead of green to red which was a real problem for a neighbor of mine. If you are color blind (I am not) it makes a BIG difference. But I warned that if you said you used results from that kit that you might get told to use a K-2006 or TF-100 instead.

But otherwise, I do know my advice is okay for a seasonal pool, but I noted the comment about a practice for a bigger one, so I am trying to tailor my comments to that. TFP obviously works fine even in my 250 gallon hot tub so I am trying to encourage it but I also know you don't necessarily want to spend more for the test kit than the pool, either...