Which IntelliCenter package to select

[markmac]

I'm trying to determine with IntelliCenter to order. I know I need the IC40 option, but what questions do I need to ask myself when evaluating between the 5PS, 8PS or 10PS?

My equipment will be;
2 X Intelliflo XF
1 X MasterTemp 400k
4 X MicroBrite in Pool
1 X MicroBrite in Spa
3 X Water Descent
5 X IntelliValve (maybe 6)
1 X Clean and Clear Plus 420 (or 520)

From my reading here, I know I need the expansion module for the 5 (or 6) intellivalves.
Only future consideration may be low voltage landscaping lights.
Primary modes would be: SWG during low flow filtration, spa Heating, spa jet, skimming, waterfalls, and spa overflow (360 overflow ledge). I guess a few combo light settings maybe?

I was about to blindly order the 10PS, assuming future expansion may be desirable, but from what I read, I don't think I need more than the 5PS, and I can still expand in the future if I ever wanted, I believe?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Mark,

Each light that you want to independently control will need a relay and transformer.. You need this if you want the lights to be different colors at the same time.

You will want a pad light, that will take a relay

The SWCG needs a relay (pump/filter relay)

IntelliFlo Pumps do not need a relay

Heater does not need a relay

Valves do not need a relay

landscape light will need a relay

Stenner pump would need a relay

Whatever I forgot will need a relay...

I suggest the 8 or 10 relay unit.. Like a Spa blower motor or booster pump for solar or booster pump for a pressure side cleaner..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[markmac]

Thanks Jim. I was thinking of adding the IntelliPH in the future after I get sick of carrying jugs of MA. So thanks for flagging the Stenner pump to make me thing of that one.

I've been pricing most of the equipment at polytecpools but they're sold out of the 8 and 10 relay units. Ideally I want to get everything on one invoice to max the warranty.

I read in the large IntelliCenter thread that the IntelliValves can only move to two settings? That's a bumber if true, as I hoped to be able to mix flows on a few different settings.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Mark,

All systems can only turn a valve on and off... It is not really much of a bummer at all.. That is why god created the VS pump...

The IntelliCenter does have half a system for rotating the IntelliValve in steps, but the other half of the system has yet to be released.. I personally would not be holding my breath..

Who is going to install this stuff??? Pentair will only give a DIY guy a 60 day warranty...

I don't know much about the IntelliCenter.. Not sure if you have a 5P, if you can just add a module to make an 8P, or if you have to replace the entire 5P card with an 8P card.. That seems like a huge waste of money...

Let's see what @MyAZPool has to say about it..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[markmac]

Thanks. From what I’ve been reading, it’s best to go intellicenter over the legacy automation? Even if not fully implemented yet?

I’m going to have a lic. Plumber and Lic electrician install and provide invoice. I called pentair and they said that’s what I needed to do.

 

[MyAZPool]

markmac
If you opt for an i5PS (five power relays) and then you decide you need more (i8 or i10), it will cost you quite a bit more than just getting a system with a higher relay capacity right from the beginning. Allow yourself some room for expansion as @Jimrahbe points out.

Example. If you need 4 relays now, get an i8PS. If you need 7 relays now, I would get an i10PS.
I have a i10PS and I only have two spare relays now. I kept finding more and more uses for those relays. One of them, I actually use as a "test" relay for testing various scenarios for users here, so really I just one true spare now.

Think of it like this...
Say you want a car. One has a sun roof and the other doesn't. You buy the one without the sunroof and then discover you want the sunroof later. Imagine how much that modification would cost. It would have been a lot cheaper just to buy the car with the sunroof already installed right? Same thing...

r.

 

[MyAZPool]

Mark,

All systems can only turn a valve on and off... It is not really much of a bummer at all.. That is why god created the VS pump...

The IntelliCenter does have half a system for rotating the IntelliValve in steps, but the other half of the system has yet to be released.. I personally would not be holding my breath..

Who is going to install this stuff??? Pentair will only give a DIY guy a 60 day warranty...

I don't know much about the IntelliCenter.. Not sure if you have a 5P, if you can just add a module to make an 8P, or if you have to replace the entire 5P card with an 8P card.. That seems like a huge waste of money...

Let's see what @MyAZPool has to say about it..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim,
Looks like the OP will have a spa, so he will need the PS model.. All of the mothercards are exactly the same. The diffs are in the daughter card. If the OP purchases the i5PS and then finds later, that he needs the i8PS, he will have to R&R the daughter card and buy 3 more relays. In this scenario, now he has purchased two daughter cards instead of just one and they're not cheap when you purchase them "a la carte".
A lot cheaper just to get the larger capacity system to begin with...
I speak from personal experience unfortunately.
r.

 

[markmac]

thanks @MyAZPool
I do have a spa. From what I see, the 8PS to 10PS is minimal price, so best to just grab 10PS.

Question for you on difficulty in setting up the IntelliCenter myself. I plan to get a Lic Electrician to run the power and install the sub-panel breakers etc so I can get that all signed off. But I think I should be able to handle the rest. From past experience on a previous old pool, I installed a VS, and SWG, but had no way to control the SWG, other than on/off with the pump. So I purchased a current control relay, and a timer relay. Rigged the current relay sensing pin to the VS pump 220V for trigger. When amps surpassed X, send power to SWG, and Timer Relay. Timer relay then counted down from whatever duration was set, and then tripped current relay to shut off SWG when it reached 0:00 time.

If I'm comfortable enough with wiring relays, do I need the electrician to do anything more than the panel and breakers (wrt the IntelliCenter). Can I take it from there and setup lights, Intellivalve, heaters, pumps etc? I saw your posts on the IntelliCenter, so assume all the pin-out and schematics are readily available to follow?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Mark,,

You do realize that the IntelliCenter takes care of the SWCG power for you..right?? The SWCG transformer is wired to the pump/filter relay, which only closes when the pump is supposed to be running.

I personally think that you would be better off wiring all the "internals" yourself.. You can take your time and do it right.. Most normal electricians do not have a clue how to wire pool automation systems, other that connecting the line voltage to the load center..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[markmac]

yep. I just wanted to provide an example of what I'm comfortable doing. I had no issue rigging the dual relays to run my previous SWG, so I figure I can take care of the IntelliCenter. Just didn't want to blindly "assume".

Personally, I'd run all the pad electrical, and sub panel, but I know the city will want a Lic/permit pulled which I'm fine with. Rather have a second set of eyes review that stuff given pool, water, and kids. After that, I think I'm okay.......

 

[markmac]

with the intellicenter is there any benefit of 12v vs 120v pool lights?

 

[MyAZPool]

markmac,
I agree with @Jimrahbe. Especially the part that electricians typically don't have a clue as to how to wire pool automation systems and connect up all of the devices "CORRECTLY".
It certainly sounds to me as if you possess the necessary skill sets to do all of that yourself. That way you know that it will be done right. I did all of mine myself and when I look at other panels in comparison, where the electrician did the work, I'm always like "OMG, what happened here?" Where was this guys' "attention-to-detail", etc. etc.

I do have a spa. From what I see, the 8PS to 10PS is minimal price, so best to just grab 10PS.

Sounds like a good call to me.

From past experience on a previous old pool, I installed a VS, and SWG, but had no way to control the SWG, other than on/off with the pump. So I purchased a current control relay, and a timer relay. Rigged the current relay sensing pin to the VS pump 220V for trigger. When amps surpassed X, send power to SWG, and Timer Relay. Timer relay then counted down from whatever duration was set, and then tripped current relay to shut off SWG when it reached 0:00 time.

Now correct me if I'm not reading the above correctly, it sounds to me like you want to have more control over the SWCG, than just having it come on anytime the Filter Pump circuit is on. If that is the case, then there is a simple method to do that which I and a few others have taken advantage of. But if you want the SWCG on whenever the Filter Pump circuit is on, then just wiring it the standard way (off the load side of the filter pump relay) will be correct.. Easy Peasy... But only if you know that you will want to run your pump and NOT have the SWCG powered up (like in the winter when it won't work anyway), then let me know and I can show you a simple way to do that. This method really only works well when a user has an IntelliCenter or IntelliTouch where they can take advantage of the CIRCUIT GROUP (Macro) features. Important to point out though, that this non-standard method will cost you 1 of those 10 power relays.
More information on this topic can be found in post #25 of the following thread.

IntelliCenter Quick Reference/Information Guide

Great! And will do!

www.troublefreepool.com

If I'm comfortable enough with wiring relays, do I need the electrician to do anything more than the panel and breakers (wrt the IntelliCenter). Can I take it from there and setup lights, Intellivalve, heaters, pumps etc? I saw your posts on the IntelliCenter, so assume all the pin-out and schematics are readily available to follow?

I think you "got this"
r.

 

[markmac]

Thanks @MyAZPool
ignore my SWG points. That’s from a pool a lifetime ago. Just wanted to provide an example where my comfort zone is.

for lighting, any benefits of 12v vs 120v? And, any benefit of Pentair lights vs others? I’m looking at the microbrite 12v, and saw they mount in 1.5” pipe, so can be swapped with other brands in the future. Curious if there is any Pentair built in magic to the lighting.

 

[MyAZPool]

Thanks @MyAZPool
ignore my SWG points. That’s from a pool a lifetime ago. Just wanted to provide an example where my comfort zone is.

for lighting, any benefits of 12v vs 120v? And, any benefit of Pentair lights vs others? I’m looking at the microbrite 12v, and saw they mount in 1.5” pipe, so can be swapped with other brands in the future. Curious if there is any Pentair built in magic to the lighting.

Gotcha !!!!
I elect to "punt" on the 120Vac vs 12Vdc lighting issue. It's not really my "lane". Lot's of others here have a lot more detailed information that they can provide your concerning this topic, than I can.
@Jimrahbe or @ajw22 can be more helpful in this area (or know who is), than I.

But for your specific IntelliCenter questions, I can probably help you out.
r.

 

[ajw22]

for lighting, any benefits of 12v vs 120v? And, any benefit of Pentair lights vs others? I’m looking at the microbrite 12v, and saw they mount in 1.5” pipe, so can be swapped with other brands in the future. Curious if there is any Pentair built in magic to the lighting.

The Pentair magic is that the LED light colors can be selected directly from the IntelliCenter.

The IntelliBrite LED 120V lights have the 120V to 12V transformer in the light. I prefer the 12V units that have an external transformer. One less thing to generate heat in the light niche.

Read...

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[markmac]

I prefer the 12V units that have an external transformer. One less thing to generate heat in the light niche.

so would you go as far as to recommend the MicroBrites over the intellibrites for that reason? Any benefit of intellibrite vs MicroBrote with regards to the IntelliCenter?

Thanks for the link, I took a read, but still trying to get some insight on pros/cons of intellibrite vs microbrite. Then a step further in whether I gain future capability with Microbrite, if third party lights become compatible later given the nicheless design.

 

[ajw22]

The IntelliBrites are brighter but they have their issues. You need more MicroBrite lights for the same coverage.

Reliabity of the IntelliBrites has been sketchy. Reliability of the MicroBrites is not known as they have not been out that long.

There are other manufacturers of nicheless LED lights like...

Brilliant Wonders® LED Products - CMP

Compact, Nicheless Compact Size Powerful LEDs Upgraded Design Original Design WANT MORE INFO ON BRILLIANT WONDERS PRODUCTS? Before you go any further, click the button below to get in touch with CMP THE COMPLETE LED PRODUCT LINE FOR EVERY POOL Brilliant Wonders® LED Products are...

www.c-m-p.com

Then a step further in whether I gain future capability with Microbrite, if third party lights become compatible later given the nicheless design.

I don't know what you are asking. None of know what future products may be.

 

[markmac]

Sorry. I'm curious how flexible the IntelliCenter may already be with other vendors lights. Such as the ones you linked above.

If the IntelliCenter works with other vendors nicheless lights, then it makes it much more versatile in the future. As you say, Microbrites are new, so an unknown to a degree. If they can easily be swapped, and the Intellicenter still happy, that's attractive.

 

[ajw22]

Some other LED lights like

Florida Sunseeker PoolTone® Color LED Pool & Spa Lights and Bulbs

Pooltone Pool Baron best color led spa light bulbs lights Hayward Astrolite ColorLogic logic Pentair Amerlite Intellibrite Aqualumin Sta-Rite Swimquip Jandy Zodiac 619818Z 601000 601001 601002 601003 601010 601011 601012 601013 640120 640121 640123 640130 640131 640132 640133 SP0527 LPLUS bulb...

www.florida-sunseeker.com

have Pentair compatible lights.

CMP says...

With Smart Sync technology programming, CMP lighting can work alongside lighting from the three most popular pool light OEMs. For pools with complete automation systems, simply install the lights as you normally would and operate as usual. It just works!

 

[markmac]

that sounds great! If there's no limitations, I guess it woudl come down to life, and comparable colors and Lumens. Getting a little off topic of the thread, but will need to look up the spec's to see how they compare.

Thanks for the suggestions.