Possible New Pool In Central FL

[Tegguy]

You can conceal the waterfall amd plumbing in 12" I recommend burying the waterfall in the shell and leaving possible access from the back even if just emergency demo that wont disrupt the bond beam wall. You need 2" pipe for a 4 footer amd i always pipe the rock trap in.

An 8" wall is typical and the backside filled in with block to create the depth to conceal the plumbing and electrical.

So if I understand correctly it sounds like the recommendation would be to run and 8-12" bond all around the pool and areas that are deeper than that use concrete blocks to build them up. Just to ensure I understand the communication properly I threw together the image below the orange line is supposed to represent the pool shell and anything towards the grass from there would be concrete block or some other method. This would allow to run a back port sheer decent so the plumbing would be outside the bond beam and could run inside the concrete block area.

Am I correct in this thinking?

When someone says concrete block this is what I think of Oldcastle 8 in. x 8 in. x 16 in. Concrete Block-30161345 - The Home Depot is this what everyone is saying? Would you build the whole area up with these or just the outside perimeter? What would you use for the top layer for the coping tile?

The wife and I talked about stepping the pool shell in to decrease this thickness but we'd have to change the column size to make it look correct and that would impact the fire bowls so I do think that's an option however, I'm not sure the cost difference from building this whole thing up with concrete block vs just shooting it with gunnite. We have a decent slope down there and it's probably -24-30" off the top of the pool surface.

 

[Tegguy]

Another question would be better to build the entire raised +12 and +24 section out of block? Just have the gunnite shell go to the level of the rest of the pool and build the rest up or should I do everything out of gunnite to support the waterfalls?

I'm thinking gunnite with rebar will be better but I'm not sure.

 

[bdavis466]

It doesn't really matter one way or the other. If expense is a concern than see what gunite would cost you verse block... there probably isn't a huge difference.

 

[phlydude]

Hello from Horizon West area of WG - pool design is gorgeous

 

[Tegguy]

It doesn't really matter one way or the other. If expense is a concern than see what gunite would cost you verse block... there probably isn't a huge difference.

I'm talking to my tile guy about how this is normally handled and also a consultant I'm considering hiring to help with the process.

Hello from Horizon West area of WG - pool design is gorgeous

Hello and thank you we're near down town WG

 

[Tegguy]

Another question.... If someone was to pay a consultant to help through the build process what would be a reasonable cost to pay? Intent would be for someone to help oversee the construction process and have a second set of eyes on everything especially before gunnite and during also would be to help setup the automation system and initial startup.

This kinda goes into my other question about the raised sections and how they should be built cause I'm really not sure this is what a guy in looking at possibly hiring said

we usually pour risers around raised area beam in front pool side and concrete risers in other sides done by tile installer

He was initially going to price his fee based on what he could save us on the equipment cost with his wholesale distributor which doesn't matter to me cause I found a plumber who would give us wholesale pricing.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Usually the sheer itself is bedded in the raised beam. The plumbing is typically left out of the back for emergency as it's easier to fix pipe one day without tearing into solid concrete. Your in FL no freeze worries. You could just as easy build it up with blocks or whatever masonry you want. Yes those are cinderblocks they work just fine

As for consultation fees we typically charge 4 to 5% of project total for management. If we are only doing pool its broken down to what were overseeing. For consultation work we have a flat fee plus additional hourly rate for site visits. Often we have the guys work on parts of the management jobs as the subs or builder does not want to do it our way so we have to add labor to level the field our way is not cutting corners. Those are additional charges or sometimes the other side goes with an upcharge with a changeorder and were very upfront that this is common with certain parts of the build. The worst phase is the backfill rarely is it done right around here

 

[Tegguy]

Usually the sheer itself is bedded in the raised beam. The plumbing is typically left out of the back for emergency as it's easier to fix pipe one day without tearing into solid concrete. Your in FL no freeze worries. You could just as easy build it up with blocks or whatever masonry you want. Yes those are cinderblocks they work just fine

Thanks for the reply. I know I mentioned this before but I'm hesitant about leaving the plumbing exposed since they would be prone to damage from the lawn people since we don't plan to have a flower bed or anything behind the pool since we have our trees and everything. My tile and coping guy said they should be solid gunnite so I am so confused. If I tell the engineer to do a 8-10" thick shell I'm not sure at what point the inspector is going to have an issue with having these built up sections be thicker. I'm ok with doing the block build up if it would pass code and if I could come up with a way to still get the tile to go on (trying to think of someway I could do this without doing a solid cinder block section more like a "U" section)

Perhaps I'm in over my head here and should think about going down the PB route.

As for consultation fees we typically charge 4 to 5% of project total for management. If we are only doing pool its broken down to what were overseeing. For consultation work we have a flat fee plus additional hourly rate for site visits. Often we have the guys work on parts of the management jobs as the subs or builder does not want to do it our way so we have to add labor to level the field our way is not cutting corners. Those are additional charges or sometimes the other side goes with an upcharge with a changeorder and were very upfront that this is common with certain parts of the build. The worst phase is the backfill rarely is it done right around here

The one guy who I'm talking to about possibly consulting wants $2,500 to do it but I'm trying to understand from him what the benefit will be to me and if it's going to be worth the investment or not.

 

[Tegguy]

Another question... What is a good bond beam thickness? I was thinking 10" would be good.

 

[jimmythegreek]

You can do the sheer a number of ways. You need a 2" feed all the way back to pump. You also need to figure which length lip you need depending on what's gonna finish the front. Ita fine to bury it all in the raised wall it will fit with a 90 behind the inlet and down. I dont build concrete pools, when we do sheers we build the water walls out of steel studs then veneer them. I like to use the rock traps but I'm your case just bed the plumbing im the wall and use filtered water to feed

 

[Tegguy]

So I had an idea on one way to resolve this at least slightly and that was to add 2 more benches into the area. They are still 24" thick walls because I think anything smaller doesn't fit the look of the pool so there would still be a question of do I have them shoot 24" thick gunnite or build it with blocks (gunnite is probably the easiest.

What does everyone think of this change?

I have attached images of the was (47, 57, 63) and now for reference

 

[jimmythegreek]

Looks good either way. I will tell you benches are hard to keep clean some robots wont climb them and small you have to do manually. Wont be a huge deal if you dont have trees around. I see you have 2 other waterfalls amd a pair of bubblers. Keep in mind you are going to need dedicated suction points and more than a single pump to run all that

 

[Tegguy]

Looks good either way. I will tell you benches are hard to keep clean some robots wont climb them and small you have to do manually. Wont be a huge deal if you dont have trees around. I see you have 2 other waterfalls amd a pair of bubblers. Keep in mind you are going to need dedicated suction points and more than a single pump to run all that

A few palm trees but not much come off then. We're planning a 3HP vs pump for the pool and a separate one for the water features.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Should be good then. Keep in mind a single VS may have trouble running them all at once. I would use a 2nd VS for the waterfalls amd make sure each has it's own 2way valve and a homerun to the pad. Same with bubblers I would home run each with their own 2 way valves and then use a 3way at pad separating the pool returns amd the bubblers so you can put an actuator on that amd automate them too that way. The waterfalls would be on off by the pump set to the speed they look best at. If you want individual control of each then you need a automation panel that can run at least 5 actuator valves and 2 pumps and a bunch of planning

 

[Tegguy]

Should be good then. Keep in mind a single VS may have trouble running them all at once. I would use a 2nd VS for the waterfalls amd make sure each has it's own 2way valve and a homerun to the pad. Same with bubblers I would home run each with their own 2 way valves and then use a 3way at pad separating the pool returns amd the bubblers so you can put an actuator on that amd automate them too that way. The waterfalls would be on off by the pump set to the speed they look best at. If you want individual control of each then you need a automation panel that can run at least 5 actuator valves and 2 pumps and a bunch of planning

Would you use the 2nd vs for the bubblers too or just the waterfalls? When you say home run plumbing do you mean each line runs all the way to the pump and they all pull of 1 channel suction line or does each feature have its own suction?

 

[Tegguy]

@kimkats and anyone else any thoughts on this design? Something seems off but I can't put my finger on it. Another option would be no bench on the sides just a solid wall but at 24" (maybe 30") not 48".

 

[Tegguy]

Another option that's similar but slightly thicker walls

 

[kimkats]

I am liking the benches in the one you posted first just now. People will enjoy sitting on the benches in the deep end and rest after playing in that area. It looks nice, is symmetrical, lots of seating=all good!

The thicker benches/walls=nope as you do NOT want that corner like I saw. That is a head getter if ever there was one.

 

[Tegguy]

I am liking the benches in the one you posted first just now. People will enjoy sitting on the benches in the deep end and rest after playing in that area. It looks nice, is symmetrical, lots of seating=all good!

The thicker benches/walls=nope as you do NOT want that corner like I saw. That is a head getter if ever there was one.

Thanks @kimkats it's hard to tell but neither concept had anything protruding into the swim area just different size columns and back wall

 

[jimmythegreek]

The waterfalls would need their own pump and suction point. The bubblers could share the pool returns and 3way switch the output between them. And yes homenrum on each line you absolutely have to. Typically 2 sets of main drains with all these water features. One set just for falls. The other shared with skimmers for bubblers/pool