50000 gallons in Houston shade- any SWG without supplementing?

[reefpool]

Hi there,

I read you need a system that is rated double the volume or two normal systems in line. What is my most economical option if I don’t want to dose liquid chlorine daily? I’m also considering a liquid chlorine dispenser as an alternative. Presently pool is not heated (I’ll be starting another threads for options there, so assume it will be. Mostly shady I’d say it gets about 25% direct sun.

Thanks for your help!

 

[mknauss]

What pump do you have? A 60K rated SWCG will work with running it 24 hours per day.
The Circupool RJ60plus puts out the most chlorine gas per day of all residential units.

 

[setsailsoon]

Two RJ 60's?

 

[mknauss]

I would not use two. I think one will be sufficient with 24 hour operations.

 

[reefpool]

The pump is 2HP I know that. I can get out there in the morning for more info as I don’t know what the flow rating is offhand. It gots through an NSP 72 DE filter and returns via 6 jets. Seems pretty capable.

Thanks!!

 

[mknauss]

I am sure it is capable. But are ready to run it 24 hours per day. It will consume right at 2kW each hour. So 48kW a day.

 

[reefpool]

A good question! I’m pretty new to this (a month in) and we have been running usually 24h. We had some plumbing issues we’ve contended with so played some catch up by running 24h. We have attempted some overnight shutdowns- I have no hard evidence but the pool seems to respond poorly, just getting in need for brushing sooner. I have been able to reduce Polaris rum time.

It looks like this is going to hit me on the energy bill soon. I don’t think I can get away with much less than running 14h days. Thoughts? Is it typically folks have a VS if they run 24/7? My pump seems to work well so hate to have to dump a boatload on a new pump when I need a heater. Should I hold off on SWG until I can couple with a VS pump?

Thanks!!

 

[mknauss]

How are you chlorinating right now?

Many are changing to VS pumps. Starting next year, all pool pumps greater than 1 THP that are replaced must be a variable speed as per Federal regulations.

 

[reefpool]

Right now I’m following the forum guidance and using liquid chlorine. The pool uses about 2/3 gal per day right now.

It looks like a vs pump will run around 1K. It’s not out of the question as part of our investment in the pool. Do you think grabbing that and the SWG you mentioned above could work for us? I don’t think we will get a cover, not sure if that was assumed. It will be a little under 2k when all is said and done, which is about 2.5 years payback if I only count the chlorine but it sounds like you would suggest I maybe run at a lower speed at least some of the day so perhaps saving in energy costs also?

thanks for the help. I want to invest strategically lower our costs and improve our comfort.

 

[mknauss]

Depending on DIY or pro install, the cost would be $2500 to $4000 for a VS pump and SWCG.
As you do not have automation, you can get creative with pump and SWCG suppliers. Circupool sells both if you are willing to use non-major brand equipment.

If you get a full size VS pump (3 hp), I suspect you will be able to run it at 1500 rpm or so. That will consume approximately 250 watts. Or 1/8 what you are using now for electricity.

 

[setsailsoon]

It will be a little under 2k when all is said and done, which is about 2.5 years payback if I only count the chlorine but it sounds like you would suggest I maybe run at a lower speed at least some of the day so perhaps saving in energy costs also?

Angela,

Your power savings are the majority of the savings. Actual payout depends on how long you run the pump and how many months per year you operate. Each hour you run your single speed pump it costs about $.24 in Houston. Each hour you run the VS pump at low speed it costs about $.03. So if you run your pump 14 hrs and right now you're only adding 1.3 ppm FC with liquid bleach (10%). You could run the SWG at 100% power for just 4.3 hrs to get 1.3 ppm of FC with the RJ 60 and run the pump only the rest of the 9.7 hrs (assuming that's needed to skim). The power savings is about $88 per month. When chlorine demand picks up later to require 24 hr operation of the pump your savings increases to $150 per month. Actual savings depends on how much FC you need and how much you have to run to skim effectively but in the real world the payout is usually 1-2 years. Most people I know realize the low end of the payout period range.

Chris

 

[reefpool]

Thank you both for this level of detail to help me manage expectations and help me with planning. This sounds like a good investment.
To go with that SWG I was also thinking the 3HP- What is a good reliable and low maintenance pump brand to look at? We will DIY.

 

[setsailsoon]

I'll defer to Marty on the brand especially in your size. He has way more experience than I do. I actually went with a motor only replacement. Not sure if that's an option for you and even if it is I wouldn't recommend if you have a 10 year or older pump.

Chris

 

[mknauss]

What is a good reliable and low maintenance pump brand to look at? We will DIY.

As you do not have automation, you can get creative with pump and SWCG suppliers. Circupool sells both if you are willing to use non-major brand equipment.

With DIY -- it is up to you. In general, most believe Pentair makes the best VS pumps. But you get a 60 day warranty on DIY install.
Circupool has SWCG - VS pump packages that are very attractive in price. With a warranty. Do get pump unions to install.

Do you have a timer for your current pump? You will need a timer for the SWCG to run through as you never want the SWCG to be powered on with the pump off. They have a flow switch, but that is a secondary safety device. Removing the power is the primary safety device. A SWCG can explode if powered on with out water flow.

 

[reefpool]

Thanks for all the help on this. Yes I do have a timer- it’s a mechanical one where it rotates and rocks the switch to the off position when needed. I don’t know if it is intelligently wired- kinda hoping it is series with the Polaris after, but I haven’t opened it up. My electrical skills are limited to an undergrad course and some dimmer switch installs. Thank you for the practical guidance!

I looked at the circupool package for xl but if includes a filter and prefilter. I’m not yet finding just the pump and SWG, but I’m going to keep digging as I’m not that excited about a 1K Pentair with a 60 day warranty. Shouldn’t a pump install be rather straight forward? Maybe I’m missing something there? Basically was just thinking swap with the other and hook up in the same way. Not sure why that limits the warranty! Fwiw all equip is old and I probably need to have my husband break up the failing concrete to repour the pad and already we were planning to redo some plumbing work where the glue has all failed from whoever decided to barely glue the pvc. So a lot of opportunity but also that’s a good point to do some of this other stuff.

thank you again for the great consult. This is such a helpful community and I appreciate all of the time you guys have given.

 

[mknauss]

I looked at the circupool package

 

[setsailsoon]

Angela,

All the major suppliers reduce warranty for DIY on many items. The reduction amount varies by equipment type and brand. Jandy cuts to zero. Also the requirements to get full warranty are different. Pentair is one of the least restrictive. Most 3rd party suppliers have minimal or no restrictions. There are some items where this doesn't matter much but for VS pump and especially SWG equipment I would not want to spend that much and have less than full warranty. There are just too many warranty failures outside the 60 days. But for things like automation which are purely electronics I'm OK with the reduction since they fail within the first few days or they seem to last forever.

I've only had my Circupool SWG for a little over a year but it's been great. They have a good reputation on here and they seem to have the same longevity as other brands. Like all brands of SWG they do seem to have the occasional manufacturing defects and when that happens they honor the warranty. I have no experience with the Circupool pump but I believe it uses the same VS motor brand that I have and I'm happy with it, it's been in service less than a year though. Based on experts comments here I think the Pentair pump is probably better but I wouldn't install it DIY because of the warranty issues. If going DIY I'd go with the brand Marty suggests. They also have a line that includes the SWG relay if needed. Not sure if you need this, just depends on the way your pump is controlled. You might be able to power the SWG from the pump timer and adjust the % power on the SWG to adequately control FC level. Most experts here recommend you do not rely on the SWG flow switch only to ensure that the SWG can't run if the pump turns off as this is a hazardous condition that can happen if the flow switch fails. I agree with this and it often requires you have an additional timer for the SWG that is supplied from the load side of the pump timer unless you have a pump with the internal SWG relay.

Chris

 

[ajw22]

The SWG vendors have various solutions for large pools. Read SWG Multiple Cells - Further Reading

 

[reefpool]

Thanks all for the help. I’m going to check that article also for other options, but just to confirm a couple things:

1) people tend to have the professionally installed because otherwise you can’t get the warranty. Both pump and swg, correct? Will the cost be obscene or it really depends on your setup? If I get all my plumbing set up for an easy install will I save? If cost is very high plus extra of the high end gear I still might diy, but I just want to understand the recommendations generally on that.

2) I noticed this circupool rj60 plus has lifespan of only 15000 hours. If we assume that I’ll average 18 hour days between running summer and winter, that’s only 2.3 years of use. This means my cost per year is around 650 which will be approx the same for liquid chlorine so no savings. So I might consider liquid chlorine dosing similar in price. Correct?

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

1) people tend to have the professionally installed because otherwise you can’t get the warranty. Both pump and swg, correct? Will the cost be obscene or it really depends on your setup? If I get all my plumbing set up for an easy install will I save? If cost is very high plus extra of the high end gear I still might diy, but I just want to understand the recommendations generally on that.

Pool store installed pricing is typically 2X what you can buy the equipment for.

They will not likely credit you for making it easier for them. That is not where their cost is.

2) I noticed this circupool rj60 plus has lifespan of only 15000 hours. If we assume that I’ll average 18 hour days between running summer and winter, that’s only 2.3 years of use. This means my cost per year is around 650 which will be approx the same for liquid chlorine so no savings. So I might consider liquid chlorine dosing similar in price. Correct?

Quite a coincidence that SWG and LC costs are about the same! We have long known and never claimed that the SWG saves money over LC. It tends to cost the same. But a SWG relieves you of the hassles of lugging jugs, finding fresh LC stock, dosing LC every day, etc. A SWG saves time and money ion other ways.