4ppm Chlorine Loss Daily

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divemasterphil

divemasterphil

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LifeTime Supporter
Aug 4, 2010
22
Fort Myers FL
It's been a while since but I'm back. Fell victim to the Pool Store testing for a couple of years but I've come to my senses.

I have an issue with daily chlorine loss of 4ppm. I SLAM'd the pool a couple of weeks ago and last night's chlorine loss was 0. I'm running a 12,000 pool with an iChlor30. To maintain 4ppm of chlorine loss I have to run the SWCG for 12 hours at 100%. I thought my math was wrong but it does appear I'm losing 4ppm daily and never more than 0.5ppm at night. Been checking pool at 8 am and 8 pm daily. Yesterday I shut down the SWCG to get my daily loss number. Today I'm adding 64oz 10% Liquid Chlorine to bump the FC to 7-8. I'll post the evening loss tonight.

Some notes: Pool water is crystal clear and when I brush I cannot see any visible dust/dirt cloud.
Currently, no one is using the pool.
I run the pump at 2000 rpm @ 35 GPM, about 2x turnover daily.
My math: A gallon on 10% Chlorine adds about 8ppm to 12,000 gallons.
The iChlor30 should generate 1 Gallon of 10% Chlorine in 24 hours. Wrong, 10ppm in 24 hrs at 100% or 1 Gallon of 12% Chlorine equivalent.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Phil


1.jpeg2.jpeg3.jpeg

Added:
Here are all my numbers from this morning:
FC=3.2 Before adding 1/2 gal chlorine, 7.4 one hour after adding.
Ph=7.5
CH=310
TA=90
CYA=75
Temp=77
Salt=3500
 
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divemasterphil said:
run the pump at 2000 rpm @ 35 GPM, about 2x turnover daily.
Click to expand...

Like Pat, my first thought is that your CYA is way too low..

You do understand that turnovers are a myth, right? You can run your pump as you see fit.. But there is no need to turnover X amount pool water per day.. Not sure at what RPM your salt cell comes on, but water speed has nothing to do with chlorine production..

If you want, you could probably lower your RPM and save a little on your electrical bill.

Thanks, Oh, and welcome back to TFP...

Jim R.
 
My CYA is between 70-80. There's an image from the "Pool Math" app with all the numbers above. Per the watt reading on the pump and verified with a clamp over meter I'm only using $15 in electricity per month running at 400 watts or 144 kilowatts per month (400wattsx12hrsx30days@$0.11perKw).

Here are all my numbers from this morning:
FC=3.2 Before adding 1/2 gal chlorine, 7.4 one hour after adding.
Ph=7.5
CH=310
TA=90
CYA=75
Temp=77
Salt=3500

I took the water to the local pool store for testing and here's there result and one of the reason I don't trust their testing anymore;
4.jpeg

This was with a water sample FC @ 7.4ppm. When their reading came back at 3ppm retested it and confirmed it was 7.2. I even tried the test strip and otto (off the chart).

Note; I'm using the K-2006C test kit.
 
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Phil, you had me curious, so I did some more digging. Here are a few things that I discovered or caught my eye:
- In Post #1 you mentioned running SWG 24 hrs to get 1 gallon of 10%, but PoolMath says 1 lb. So I don't think we can compare SWG "lbs" to to liquid chlorine "gallons".
- Pump rpm shouldn't really matter. As long as there's enough water flow to push the flow switch, chlorine is being generated
- You are correct that 1 gallon of 10 liquid chlorine should increase your 12K pool's FC by about 8 ppm.
- I used the SWG Runtime Calculator, and I'm getting different figures. For example:
- To maintain 4 ppm, you should be able to run the SWG at 40% for 24 hrs... or
- To maintain 4 ppm, you should be able to run the SWG at 100% for 9.6 hrs

All of your FC loss seems to be during the day with next to zero loss at night. For your Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, your SWG was off on those nights correct? Your sig shows pool built this year, so that's should be a new SWG. With no algae, accurate and consistent (time of day) testing, if you're not seeing those expected FC results, I'm wondering if there's a problem with the IC30? The only other missing piece not noted above - salt. Have you confirmed you have enough salt in there? That would certain;y influence your FC production.
 
I think my goal tonight is to see how much chlorine the SWCG will produce from 8pm to 8am at 100%.

My big question is 4ppm loss per day excessive? It was a sunny almost 90-degree day.
If the iChlor was designed for a pool more than 2 1/2 times my size why needing to run it at 80% for 12hrs (100% for 9.6 hours)?

Thank you taking the time to review this.

Phil




Texas Splash said:
Phil, you had me curious, so I did some more digging. Here are a few things that I discovered or caught my eye:
- In Post #1 you mentioned running SWG 24 hrs to get 1 gallon of 10%, but PoolMath says 1 lb. So I don't think we can compare SWG "lbs" to to liquid chlorine "gallons". as OK, I did not catch it is in pounds. Time for new math.
- Pump rpm shouldn't really matter. As long as there's enough water flow to push the flow switch, chlorine is being generated, No issues here
- You are correct that 1 gallon of 10 liquid chlorine should increase your 12K pool's FC by about 8 ppm. Cool
- I used the SWG Runtime Calculator, and I'm getting different figures. For example:
- To maintain 4 ppm, you should be able to run the SWG at 40% for 24 hrs... or
- To maintain 4 ppm, you should be able to run the SWG at 100% for 9.6 hrs.

All of your FC loss seems to be during the day with next to zero loss at night. For your Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, your SWG was off on those nights correct? Correct. Your sig shows pool built this year, so that's should be a new SWG, Correct. With no algae (Had an issue with the contractor landscaper pointing a sprinkler at the pool for a couple of days, that's is when we started to lose control and ultimately SLAMing the pool. Sprinkler water come directly from the pond) accurate and consistent (time of day) testing, if you're not seeing those expected FC results, I'm wondering if there's a problem with the IC30? The only other missing piece not noted above - salt. Have you confirmed you have enough salt in there? 3500ppm. That would certain;y influence your FC production.
Click to expand...
 
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divemasterphil said:
My big question is 4ppm loss per day excessive? It was a sunny almost 90-degree day.
Click to expand...
4 ppm is on the upper-end of our acceptable 24 hr loss range, but it is within range. But for an SWG rated for 30K, you should be able to adjust the SWG as you see fit to generate the amount of FC you would like without having to push it too hard. Did you get a chance to verify the salt level? Hopefully with a Taylor K-1766 salt kit?
 
My salt reading of 3500 is the average of what the pool store (3300) and SWCG (3700) says. I'll order the K-1766 Salt Test Kit tonight.

Texas Splash said:
4 ppm is on the upper-end of our acceptable 24 hr loss range, but it is within range. But for an SWG rated for 30K, you should be able to adjust the SWG as you see fit to generate the amount of FC you would like without having to push it too hard. Did you get a chance to verify the salt level? Hopefully with a Taylor K-1766 salt kit?
Click to expand...
 
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I'm at a loss tonight, I only dropped 1.2ppm today, SWCG off. That a large difference from yesterday's 4.3ppm drop. Started at 8am with 3.2ppm, adding 1/2 Gal 10% this morning to get it to 7.4 and I ended the day with 6.2. So the only question left is how much chlorine is the SWCG producing. I have it running tonight from 8pm to 8am at 100%. If it's working right we should see a gain of around 5ppm with little loss during the night. I should add the SWCG is spotlessly clean inside and it provides the following data: 252 hrs, 79 degrees, 3742ppm, 18.7 volts, and firmware r500. It would be nice if it provided amps or watts.
 

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Hey Phil, I have been going through the exact same analysis (different SWG).
I am pretty convinced my brand new CircuPool RJ45+ from Discount Salt Pools is not producing the correct amount of FC (consitently about 2 FC short in the generation) I have been in contact with CircuPool/DSP and while I have not pushed for a replacement unit yet, they don't even seem to except the possibility this RJ45+ unit could be defective.

Rightfully so, they have questioned the usual suspects (water chemistry, cleaning the brand new cell, the SWG console readings, salt, etc.). All are spot on. I have the FC generation capaciy given the size of my pool (I am running 50% for 16 hrs to keep FC up).

My biggest problem is that CircuPool/DSP doesn't even to acknowledge that their unit may not be 100% up to spec. CircuPool/DSP has taken the position that the SWG either produces FC or doesn't which I don't think is true.
 
Try running your SWG during the night and checking the FC in the morning. Nothing should be consuming the FC during the evening unless you have a water issue. Mine was rated for about 5ppm for 12 hours at 100% output and it produce 4.6ppm.

Keep in mind that 50% output just operates the SWG 50% of an hour, the other 30 minutes it's just idle. Basically it's either generating or not. So you could run 100% for 8 hours and get the same results.


JonoVegas said:
Hey Phil, I have been going through the exact same analysis (different SWG).
I am pretty convinced my brand new CircuPool RJ45+ from Discount Salt Pools is not producing the correct amount of FC (consitently about 2 FC short in the generation) I have been in contact with CircuPool/DSP and while I have not pushed for a replacement unit yet, they don't even seem to except the possibility this RJ45+ unit could be defective.

Rightfully so, they have questioned the usual suspects (water chemistry, cleaning the brand new cell, the SWG console readings, salt, etc.). All are spot on. I have the FC generation capaciy given the size of my pool (I am running 50% for 16 hrs to keep FC up).

My biggest problem is that CircuPool/DSP doesn't even to acknowledge that their unit may not be 100% up to spec. CircuPool/DSP has taken the position that the SWG either produces FC or doesn't which I don't think is true.
Click to expand...
 
This pool is still burning through chlorine like me with a bottle of Captain! That's a 1.75 Liter @ 80 proof. I know someone was going to ask for the numbers ;)

So, I average 5+ppm loss of Chlorine daily (That's a gallon of 6% bleach). The pool is in the Sun all day and maintaining 85 degrees without assistance. Running SWCG all night tonight to verify it's production again. Normally my acid demand is 10-20 ounces a week, this week not so much, only a .2 raise in the PH. I have no overnight FC loss and the pool is crystal clear.

Any thoughts? Is this my new normal?

Current Stats:
FC: 3.4 (Should be 7.4 by 8am)
PH: 7.6
TA: 70
CH: 330
CYA: 40 (Has been dropping 10ppm a week for the past month)
CSI: .05
Temp: 85
 
If you are losing 10 ppm of CYA a week, you have a leak. My water temperature is at or above yours with a lot of sun and I might lose 15 ppm a month.
 
Thank you for your reply. I just took a look back at last month's notes and I have not added any water for a while and to lose 50% CYA in just over a month would be a serious amount of water. Rainfall for May was 4.5" and I didn't note adding any water for the month and I'm actually up a 1" over normal. I could be off on the actual cya drop as it is harder to read at the higher amounts. I was logging 80ppm April 19th, 70ppm May 16, and 50ppm May 24.

Just trying to get a handle on this. Either I'm not generating chlorine at the specified amount per Pentair or I have some other issue. Currently running SWCG 12 hours at 100% for 5ppm.
 
I ran the SWCG 12 hours straight last night and lost 0.2ppm. And another 12 hours today and remained at 3.2ppm FC. Zero CC. I pull the SWCG and it is clean, so I think it isn't producing much. Not sure what's up with it. It will be off for the next 24 hours and I'll see what the real FC lose is. Bumped the FC to 10ppm with liquid chlorine, hopefully, there will be 10ppm in the morning.
 
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