Yep...a new guy, probably not new problems

1Planeguy

Bronze Supporter
Mar 16, 2020
21
Alabama, USA
So, recently sold a house and leased a temporary place that had a pool. Figured there was lots that I didn't know that I didn't know...but NO WORRIES, there's a pool store a half mile away! (And then the insanity started...)

So to try to keep this somewhat short...I want to make the best of this pool for the 2-3 years I'll be in this house (and don't want it to be an eye sore/mosquito breeding ground if I didn't) so I have to learn a few things. Pool had a mesh cover over it that kept most debris out but I don't believe it had been maintained in a year and a half. Home owner gave me almost zero instructions on this thing (he is literally on the other side of the country...never met him). I asked a few friends, watched a few YT videos and started hitting the pool store like it was a Vegas slot machine. Adding a little of this, little of that, and by some miracle of modern chemistry the water actually is pretty clear. Problem was there were nasty stains on all the fiberglass parts...and later I realized that dingy liner was actually not PERMANENTLY stained, just kinda stained (leased house...obviously not replacing a liner out of my pocket for someone else, so it is what it is). I start talking to the pool lady (heretofore referred to as PL) who quits making much sense when I asked about the staining, so back to google and YT. I read that it was most likely iron based or copper-ish based and vitamin C tablets would work great on iron stains. Quick run to the medicine cabinet and 5 minutes later I deduce (assume?) that it is in fact iron. I've already figured out the pool store lady isn't afraid to swipe my debit card and very little of what she/they have told me turned out to be very helpful (4-500 hundred dollars worth of it ) so more googling lots of questions, watched some videos and I keep getting referred to this forum. Took a step back, registered on the forum, read the getting started section, ordered a Taylor K-2006C test kit (received already) and a K-1766 salt test kit(not received yet) and the cool little stirrer thing (not received, but doing the first full battery of test stirring by hand, I'd pay easily double what the stirrer cost LOL). I've waited to start blasting questions till I read enough to have a little clue. Got the test kit (better than the test strips the pool store begrudgingly sold me...made me think they wanted me coming to them to test things...hmmmmm :unsure: ) yesterday, and read the manual that came with it, and got my first "real" numbers...here goes.

So my FC is 6.2 ppm with CC @ .4 ppm.
PH= 8.0
TA=120 ppm
CH= 310 ppm
CYA=< 30
Hayward Aquarite says the salt level is 3400 ppm but can't back check that myself yet (PL said 3200 I believe)

The PL said not to worry about CYA until it got up around 90 degrees...I didn't know any better so I ignored that up till now. The pool math calculator (which is awesome BTW) basically wants that info to determine the target FC, so probably need to get the CYA where it needs to be next? I did pick up some muriatic acid from the local Home Depot and brought the PH down to a nice 7.5. This pool has a SWG (and will get plenty of sunlight) so according to the TFP for beginners I should get the CYA between 60 and 80. It will be partially shaded in the morning and evenings so maybe go for the lower end of that @ approx. 60?

So I believe I need to
A. add CYA and inch up on the goal of 60ish
B. back down the dial on the SWG to lower my FC to the target of 4 for a CYA level of 60

Then things get fuzzy...my TA and CH are probably on the high side and at least the CH part of the problem will require water drain/fill? Is that worth messing with at this point...or wait and get the CYA and FC right then see where it is and reevaluate?

Somewhere sooner than later I need to think about dealing with the stains. According to my VAST knowledge of the subject ;) I'm probably looking at lowering the FC and adding abscorbic acid? I understand that I then have to bring the FC back up slowly so as not to let the iron just redeposit? I've read some mentions of filter media to help remove the iron from the water...but will need more info on that one. Scrubbing with a vitamin C tablet makes it sparkly clean immediately. (see picture below)
20200316_085026.jpg

Please don't judge me by the Crud floating in the water in the above picture. It is pollen season in Alabama and this yard has a couple of trees next to the pool...till it quits dropping this mess in a few weeks it isn't going to stay pristine. Back fence neighbor asked if I bought the house because he was willing to pay me to cut the tree down LOL...(he has a pool across the fence).



Crushing up a handful of tablets and dumping them in the shallow end makes the liner clean in a few minutes...(see picture below)

20200316_085004.jpg


That is probably more than my allowable questions right out of the gate, so I'll stop.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Jeremy in Alabama (using pool maintenance as a great excuse to social distance)
 
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So its definitely Iron. You can either do the AA treatment or the Polyfill. Do you fill your pool out of a well or city water?? Well water usually has iron in it. As for CH dont worry too much you have a liner and TA is going to come down as you add Muriatic acid to lower you ph. Follow Stains in Your Pool - Trouble Free Pool
 
House is on city water...is there an easy test for iron that can be done at my faucet?

Also, read the AA treatment thread...got my head around it now I think. I'm going to start gathering the ingredients to do that little trick...but wondered how long should I expect it to take for my FC level to drop? It's really high (that with the high PH is probably what caused the stains in the first place)
 
Hey everyone! Look at this! He got a test kit, read stuff, filled in his siggy and wrote a cute love note to his sweetie in his pool! Can we keep him??? LOL

Hi and welcome to TFP! We are going to LOVE teaching you all about caring for that pool!

To lower FC you can let the sun shine on it or you can add something *yellow* if you catch my drift :roll: LOL It will come down slowly with the cooler temps. Now if you want to spend MORE money (man you got pool $tored for sure before. I am SO sorry :() you can use
hydrogen peroxide (the stuff in the brown bottle) to bring it down faster.

Oh and for an iron test look in your toilet tank to see if you can see the discoloration in there OR you can go see the PL. That is the ONLY test we let them do.

Kim:kim:
 
You can take your tap water into the PL and ask her to test it specifically for iron. Metals testing are one of the few times we recommend someone get the pool store to test their water.

Some stuff to read if you have not found it...




BTW, your CH is fine. If not for your iron problem the only things you need to do are raise your CYA and lower your pH a bit.
 
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Hey everyone! Look at this! He got a test kit, read stuff, filled in his siggy and wrote a cute love note to his sweetie in his pool! Can we keep him??? LOL

(Me and the wife just had the BEST laugh from that...thanks a ton!)


Hi and welcome to TFP! We are going to LOVE teaching you all about caring for that pool!

To lower FC you can let the sun shine on it or you can add something *yellow* if you catch my drift (Like recycled beer? LOL)


:roll: LOL It will come down slowly with the cooler temps. Now if you want to spend MORE money (man you got pool $tored for sure before. I am SO sorry :() you can use
hydrogen peroxide (the stuff in the brown bottle) to bring it down faster.

(Is there an equation for calculating the quantity to neutralize 26K gallons @ 6.2 ppm worth of chlorine? If it isn't insane I might pickup some to speed up the FC drop.)

Oh and for an iron test look in your toilet tank to see if you can see the discoloration in there OR you can go see the PL. That is the ONLY test we let them do.

Kim:kim:
 
  1. Add Sodium Thiosulfate, aka Chlorine Neutralizer for instant reduction.
  2. Add Ascorbic Acid, aka Vitamin C to remove chlorine.
  3. Add Hydrogen Peroxide, aka H2O2, to breakdown chlorine.
  4. Remove chlorine naturally with sunlight, aeration and agitation of the water.
odium Thiosulfate, add 2 oz per 10,000 gallons of pool water to lower chlorine level by 1.0 ppm.Probably the cheapest and most reliable method to lower chlorine levels, in pools or spas.

Ascorbic Acid – yes, granular Vit C! Add 32 oz per 10,000 gallons of pool water to lower chlorine level by about 9 ppm.

Hydrogen Peroxide – use 1 gallon of Aqua Silk Oxidizer per 10,000 gallons of pool water to lower chlorine level by 55 ppm. For spas, use 3% drug store peroxide, 2 ounces per 100 gallons of spa water, to lower chlorine (or bromine) level by about 10 ppm.

For Sodium Thiosulfate, add about a cup (8 oz) of the dry white crystals per 5,000 gallons of pool water, or 1 oz per 100 gallons – to lower chlorine by 10 ppm. Check your pool water pH and adjust to within label instructions, and add directly to the pool or spa.

sodium-thiosulfate-dosage-chart-

sodium thiosulfate dosage
In pools and spas, you want to be careful not to overshoot the mark, or overdose the pool with Sodium Thio, or you may have difficulty adding new chlorine, temporarily at least. Sodium Thiosulfate will dissipate from most pools within a few days. Follow the label instructions carefully when using a chlorine remover, for recommended water balance and dosages.

Another good resource is this sodium thiosulfate calculator on Koiphen.com – enter your pool size in gallons (or liters) and the current chlorine level in ppm, and it tells you how many ounces or grams of Sodium Thiosulfate to add to reduce chlorine to zero.

This give you some options for you but I still like the recycled beer or pool party ideas best LOL

Glad I could make you two laugh. It sure put a smile on my face when I saw it!

Kim:kim:
 
So, I've brought my PH down some over a couple of days in a couple of steps. And let the FC come down as well. Current numbers are
FC 2.2
CC 0.0
PH 7.2
TA 100
CH 260
salt count reads 3600

Water has never been clearer. My iron staining has lightened some (calibrated eyeball...maybe wishful thinking LOL)

So, plan is over the next couple of weeks, to bring up the CYA to something proper for the (soon to be) Alabama summer temps, and gather the supplies to do an AA treatment and the mandatory sequesterants after. Should I hold off on the CYA until after the AA? (Don't seem to remember any mention of the AA affecting the CYA levels in any of the various AA treatment threads I've read)

Unrelated question...
The cool little Polaris thingy insists on driving in fairly tight right hand circles and twisting its hose into a ball. My understanding was that it should drive in straight lines till it hit an edge or something and "bounces" off at some angle and drives straight again (similar to a pool ball bouncing around a pool table). Is this normal or is it "confused"? For the record I have checked the little swivels in the hose and they all appear to rotate freely, so REALLY don't understand how it twists its hose up.

20200320_125741.jpg
 
Here is a good write up and read from a fella who dealt with iron in his pool too-

The thing to wrap your head around is that you can keep the iron "sequestered" in the pool water, or you can get rid of it via getting it off the walls (those stains) and into the water, then drain and refill with fresh iron-free water. The use of Polyfil is a another great tool to "capture" the iron as it goes thru the material.

As to your little pool cleaner.... keep an eye out on Craigs List and such for folks selling robots at a good price. A robot will knock your socks off compared to that cleaner you have. Sort of like the Speed Stir device vs hand swirling- a boon to pool testing!

Welcome to TFP!

Maddie :flower:
 

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So, I have read that a pump jet that makes the water "burble" or break the water can aerate the water and make the PH rise. My PH level is constantly rising. Everything else has seemed to be steady, stable and perfectly balanced. Is this normal? If this jet enough of a "burble" to make the PH rise?

Video of my burbling jet

Yes, point the return down so it does not disturb the water surface.
 
That fits right into my idea....................lets bring your TA down by 10s. It is going to be a yo-you of pushing the pH up as fast as you can to 8.0 then pushing it back down to 7.2. You will use muriatic acid to push it down. It also pushed TA down. Try to get your TA to 80 and hold it there for a few days to see if your pH likes it there better.
 
So I'm about to do an AA treatment to get rid of my iron stains. I decided to go see the PL and get her to test my water for metals. SURPRISE!...she did her test twice and says I don't have any detectable iron in my pool water. ?!?!
So I tell her that I have staining that disappears with the touch of a vitamin C tablet...see says "Yep...that's iron"...after a short question and answer session she tells me that SWGs can cause some staining if the PH gets excessively high (combined with the high FC levels that I had). So...does that make ANY sense to anyone? With visible iron staining is it possible that all my iron is OUT of the water now (deposited on surfaces in the pool) hence not showing up in her tests?
 
So I'm about to do an AA treatment to get rid of my iron stains. I decided to go see the PL and get her to test my water for metals. SURPRISE!...she did her test twice and says I don't have any detectable iron in my pool water. ?!?!
So I tell her that I have staining that disappears with the touch of a vitamin C tablet...see says "Yep...that's iron"...after a short question and answer session she tells me that SWGs can cause some staining if the PH gets excessively high (combined with the high FC levels that I had). So...does that make ANY sense to anyone? With visible iron staining is it possible that all my iron is OUT of the water now (deposited on surfaces in the pool) hence not showing up in her tests?

Iron needs to be in solution in your water to be detected in a water test. If all the iron has deposited on your pool surfaces it will not be detected.

An Ascorbic Acid treatment with sequesterant will lift the iron off the surfaces and hold it in suspension in the water.


High ph along with high chlorine will precipitate any metals that are not sequestered out of the water and on to the surface of the pool again. If this happens take the ph back down to 7, or 7.2 and add more sequestering agent. This should lift the stain off.

It has nothing to do with your SWG. Iron in the water combined with high pH and chlorine will precipitate the iron out of the water onto surfaces.
 
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Iron needs to be in solution in your water to be detected in a water test. If all the iron has deposited on your pool surfaces it will not be detected.

An Ascorbic Acid treatment with sequesterant will lift the iron off the surfaces and hold it in suspension in the water.


High ph along with high chlorine will precipitate any metals that are not sequestered out of the water and on to the surface of the pool again. If this happens take the ph back down to 7, or 7.2 and add more sequestering agent. This should lift the stain off.

It has nothing to do with your SWG. Iron in the water combined with high pH and chlorine will precipitate the iron out fo the water onto surfaces.
Gotcha...after rereading my own question and her "explanation" that only thing that is out of place is her mentioning of the SWG...it's just the chemistry. And the negative test makes sense...it won't be negative after the AA treatment.
 
So , after doing the AA treatment, the instructions on the AA treatment thread mention using liquid chlorine to bring the FC level up SLOWLY even if you have SWG. Is there a specific reason NOT to use the SWG to creep the FC level back up? And if so, considering how hard it is to find liquid chlorine right now (thanks COVID-19) would a Chlorine tablet in the skimmer suffice to start bringing the FC up till I could let the SWG take over?
 
So , after doing the AA treatment, the instructions on the AA treatment thread mention using liquid chlorine to bring the FC level up SLOWLY even if you have SWG. Is there a specific reason NOT to use the SWG to creep the FC level back up? And if so, considering how hard it is to find liquid chlorine right now (thanks COVID-19) would a Chlorine tablet in the skimmer suffice to start bringing the FC up till I could let the SWG take over?

You probably can use the SWG if you calculate the runtime carefully. Many folks have oversize SWG's that can raise the Fc by a lot in a few hours.

Don't put tablets in your skimmer as when the pump is off acidic water will accumulate int he skimmer and a slug of acid water will pass through your equipment when the pump turns on. Use a floater for tablets. With that said tablets doesn't give you much control over the FC created.

The key thing is you want to control the slow rise of FC and the SWG or tablets does not give you the control liquid chlorine dosing does.
 

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