Yo-yo Ph-TA

[Trex48]

FC 4.0
CC. .0
TC 4.0
PH 8.0**
TA 80-90*
CA 30
Temp. 78

Pool water is clear and everything looks good. When I opened the pool the TA was 70 so I brought it up to 80-90* (I have a problem with this test because I'm not sure if it is called 'red' when it actually pink....in the past I would keep adding drops to see if it would turn red but only got a deeper pink so now I stop testing as soon as the tube turns clear pink and add no drops to deepen the shade of pink so TA may be much higher); PH was only 6.8 so added borax to raise to 7.2 because I understand that liquid shock (12.5%) will raise PH so I didn't aim for 7.4-7.5. (**this is another test I have a problem with, once it goes above 7.5 I can't determine where it's at, it's never the top color that to me looks like it has more of a rose color but my solution just looks red.....I may have a touch of color blindness ?). Anyway, to bring it down, I used current 8 goal 7.5 and added 35 oz. of 34.6% MA. That worked but brought my TA down to 60-70 so I 'think' I added 16-20 oz. baking soda slurry in front of return jet yesterday. I waited several hours and got the current readings. I don't know how to bring the ph down without bringing the TA down again. Thus, the yoyo. Also, is there a test for PH other than the daily test like there is for chlorine?

 

[bmoreswim]

Don’t worry about your TA. It’s fine. Focus more on your pH, but don’t dwell. 7.2-7.8 is fine. Even 8.0 is not bad if that’s where it settles and doesn’t go any higher.

On the pH test focus on the overall shade/family of the color versus the intensity of the color. Try using 4 drops instead of 5. Some people find that makes them tested color align better with the sample colors.

No other simple pH test. That’s the one to use.

 

[Richard320]

The solution is simple: stop worrying about TA.

When you plug numbers into poolmath, look at the suggested range. If you set it to use TFP guidelines, 50-90 is acceptable. Are you between those? Yes. Then make the target your current number. Balanced and not a single grain of baking soda was added! That works on everything. If you're within the spread, leave it alone. There's no need to micromanage things and target the midpoint. You'll just end up on the seesaw with everything.

While we're on poolmath, here's a tip: after you plug in your numbers and it calculates a dose -- say, acid -- you go down to the bottom to Effects Of Adding Chemicals and plug that in. It will show you how much that will lower TA. The pH calculation will be off except within very narrow parameters, as the disclaimer just below it states. If it says add borax to raise pH, down below it will tell you how much that will also raise TA.

Back to the original thing: testing. TA goes from a green to pink. They call it red, but it's pink. If the chlorine level is really high, it will go blue to yellow. The exact shade doesn't matter. The change is what matters. I find my TA test goes green-green-green-green-grey rebounding to green- pale pink rebounding to grey - pale pink - Barbie pink and it never gets any pinker than that. You stop when the last drop gets no change at all, and deduct it. So if it went pale pink at 7 drops, Barbie pink at 8 drops, and it didn't change at all at 9, the count is 8 so TA is 80.

 

[Trex48]

Don’t worry about your TA. It’s fine. Focus more on your pH, but don’t dwell. 7.2-7.8 is fine. Even 8.0 is not bad if that’s where it settles and doesn’t go any higher.

On the pH test focus on the overall shade/family of the color versus the intensity of the color. Try using 4 drops instead of 5. Some people find that makes them tested color align better with the sample colors.

No other simple pH test. That’s the one to use.

 

[Trex48]

Thank you for the suggestion on 4 drops instead of five; I'll try that in the morning. I will try to bring the PH down a little then too.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I describe the TA test like this.... first it turns pink. Then it turns hot pink. Finally it turns HOT BARBIE PINK! That's when I know I'm done (and the next drop doesn't change it any more!)

Maddie

 

[Trex48]

The solution is simple: stop worrying about TA.

When you plug numbers into poolmath, look at the suggested range. If you set it to use TFP guidelines, 50-90 is acceptable. Are you between those? Yes. Then make the target your current number. Balanced and not a single grain of baking soda was added! That works on everything. If you're within the spread, leave it alone. There's no need to micromanage things and target the midpoint. You'll just end up on the seesaw with everything.

While we're on poolmath, here's a tip: after you plug in your numbers and it calculates a dose -- say, acid -- you go down to the bottom to Effects Of Adding Chemicals and plug that in. It will show you how much that will lower TA. The pH calculation will be off except within very narrow parameters, as the disclaimer just below it states. If it says add borax to raise pH, down below it will tell you how much that will also raise TA.

Back to the original thing: testing. TA goes from a green to pink. They call it red, but it's pink. If the chlorine level is really high, it will go blue to yellow. The exact shade doesn't matter. The change is what matters. I find my TA test goes green-green-green-green-grey rebounding to green- pale pink rebounding to grey - pale pink - Barbie pink and it never gets any pinker than that. You stop when the last drop gets no change at all, and deduct it. So if it went pale pink at 7 drops, Barbie pink at 8 drops, and it didn't change at all at 9, the count is 8 so TA is 80.

Thank you for the detailed explanation on the TA, my test doesn't go through that many changes....I don't believe it shows 'red' until it changes to pink. So, I guess the TA is more 90 than 80 since I stop as soon as it's solid 'light pink'. Also, I certainly appreciate the 'numbers spread' regarding what is acceptable chemically. I'll quit 'over-thinking' it as long as I'm algae free and chlorine is stabled. And the hint about the poolmath calculator, I will most definitely depend on that too from now on.

 

[Trex48]

I describe the TA test like this.... first it turns pink. Then it turns hot pink. Finally it turns HOT BARBIE PINK! That's when I know I'm done (and the next drop doesn't change it any more!)

Maddie

Thank you Maddie, I'll have to retest cause I stopped at baby pink.

 

[Trex48]

FC 2.5
CC .5
TT 3.0
TA 130
PH 8.2
CYA 30
After the instructions and explanation I've received yesterday on how to properly read my test results, this is my new results. I really don't know if the pH is higher than 8.2....pool math calculator indicates that adding 26 oz. 31.45 MA will reduce pH to 7.5 but also lower TA by 7.5. I haven't added anything yet because I need direction?

 

[Richard320]

FC 2.5
CC .5
TT 3.0
TA 130
PH 8.2
CYA 30
After the instructions and explanation I've received yesterday on how to properly read my test results, this is my new results. I really don't know if the pH is higher than 8.2....pool math calculator indicates that adding 26 oz. 31.45 MA will reduce pH to 7.5 but also lower TA by 7.5. I haven't added anything yet because I need direction?

Go for it. You don't even have to measure it, just eyeball 1/4 of a jug and you'll be close enough. If you overshoot little, no biggie. You won't go too low and it'll pop back up pretty quick

You should also raise the FC to about 4, so that it doesn't slip below minimum

 

[splashpad]

FC 2.5
CC .5
TT 3.0
TA 130
PH 8.2
CYA 30
After the instructions and explanation I've received yesterday on how to properly read my test results, this is my new results. I really don't know if the pH is higher than 8.2....pool math calculator indicates that adding 26 oz. 31.45 MA will reduce pH to 7.5 but also lower TA by 7.5. I haven't added anything yet because I need direction?

As a fellow AGP owner, I would suggest keeping PH near 7.4-7.6, no need to be aggressive about (there is a "speed" process to bring the PH & TA down 'quickly')
Don't raise TA unless it drops to 20-30, eventually you will find a "sweet spot" where PH doesn't climb every time you turn around

::edit add - Recommended Levels::
Vinyl with Bleach
FC 3-7 (See FC/CYA Levels)
pH 7.2-7.8
TA 50-90+
CH (Don’t add)
CYA 30-50

CYA (Stabilizer)	Minimum FC	Target FC	Shock FC
30	2	4-6	12

 

[Trex48]

As a fellow AGP owner, I would suggest keeping PH near 7.4-7.6, no need to be aggressive about.
Don't raise TA unless it makes it to 20-30, eventually you will find a "sweet spot" where PH doesn't climb everytime you turn around

Yes, I'm trying to lower my pH.....it isn't going to go down on its own. I was asking how to do that without lowering the TA or lowing it as little as possible.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Ok, first off in my mind after seeing these results is that your FC is too low. Go put some liquid chlorine or bleach in that water today or you're inviting algae to a party. Ok?

Your TA being high is causing the pH to wanna be high. So using PoolMath (eiither the app or the web version found at the bottom of this page) input your numbers in the "now" row and then input a "target" of 7.2 for the pH. It will tell you how much MA to add to get your pH to 7.2. This will have an bonus of dropping that TA a bit. You may have to do this a couple of times as your pH creeps back up. Then if you have anything like a fountain to cause or stir up bubbles in the pool, that will help your pH rise again.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

That TA and FC thing are about the only things I would deal with now. As summer progresses you may want to up your CYA a skosh if you find your FC daily losses to the "sun gods" too high. We can discuss that later.....

Maddie

 

[splashpad]

Yes, I'm trying to lower my pH.....it isn't going to go down on its own. I was asking how to do that without lowering the TA or lowing it as little as possible.

Why are you wanting to keep higher TA?

 

[Trex48]

Ok, first off in my mind after seeing these results is that your FC is too low. Go put some liquid chlorine or bleach in that water today or you're inviting algae to a party. Ok?

Your TA being high is causing the pH to wanna be high. So using PoolMath (eiither the app or the web version found at the bottom of this page) input your numbers in the "now" row and then input a "target" of 7.2 for the pH. It will tell you how much MA to add to get your pH to 7.2. This will have an bonus of dropping that TA a bit. You may have to do this a couple of times as your pH creeps back up. Then if you have anything like a fountain to cause or stir up bubbles in the pool, that will help your pH rise again.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

That TA and FC thing are about the only things I would deal with now. As summer progresses you may want to up your CYA a skosh if you find your FC daily losses to the "sun gods" too high. We can discuss that later.....

Maddie

I added liquid shock as soon I got the low chlorine reading this morning, I just wanted to post results that I had first sample this AM. ?
Yes, I'm familiar with Pool Math, I have already did the pool math calculations. Calculator told me how much MA will lower both.....reducing TA by 7.5......my question is 'won't that lower mt TA way to low like TA 60? Or is 7.5 subtracted from 130 leaving 123.5 TA?' This is my reason for posting I don't want my TA lower than 90-100.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Why not? My TA is happy at 80. All pools have their own sweet spot, and 80 is perfectly fine!

Have you seen our recommended ranges?? --> Recommended Levels - Trouble Free Pool

 

[duraleigh]

This is my reason for posting I don't want my TA lower than 90-100

Our soon to be published guidelines for TA will now be 50-90.

You will be fine lowering the TA down to 50 but no lower, please.

 

[Trex48]

Okay, I could live with 80 TA, my question is (since the pool math said MA will reduce TA 7.5) do I subtract 7.5 from 130 or do I subtract 75 from 130? That would result in a TA of 55? I don't think TA of 55 is a good idea. If I reduce TA to 90 will that bring my pH down?

 

[splashpad]

Okay, I could live with 80 TA, my question is (since the pool math said MA will reduce TA 7.5) do I subtract 7.5 from 130 or do I subtract 75 from 130? That would result in a TA of 55? I don't think TA of 55 is a good idea. If I reduce TA to 90 will that bring my pH down?

It will reduce it by 7.5
You could add up to 51oz of 31% Muriatic Acid (with approx effect of lower pH by 0.9 and lower TA by 15) Taking your PH to 7.2. You can then test and see where PH likes to settle after swimming/splashing/filtering

 

[Richard320]

Okay, I could live with 80 TA, my question is (since the pool math said MA will reduce TA 7.5) do I subtract 7.5 from 130 or do I subtract 75 from 130? That would result in a TA of 55? I don't think TA of 55 is a good idea. If I reduce TA to 90 will that bring my pH down?

Your TA will only drop 7. It might not even show up on your next TA test. If you're at 135 now, it could read as 130 and 127 will certainly read the same.

Again, stop worrying about TA, and stop micromanaging.