Is 0 CYA OK with liquid chlorinator

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Without judgement in your tone ;), you might suggest to your wife that she take another look at the safety profile and data on CYA .... the gymnastics (and potential to screw up) your sanitation of the water w/ no safety net seems inherently riskier then even the most critical reading of the CYA MSDS
 
I went back and searched your threads and found a pic of your water. Beautiful! I doubt it will ever get bad enough to make you sick (assuming it is just you guys swimming in it). I have swam in some pretty grody rivers/lakes/ponds before and have survived so far. If/When you start to have problems you will at least have some ideas of what might need to change.

With that said, a happy wife is far more precious than a completely sanitized pool. Do what makes you happy.
 
"Cyanuric acid is classified as "essentially nontoxic". The 50% oral median lethal dose (LD50) is 7700 mg/kg in rats."
Click to expand...
Yeah, well, that is just rats.....who cares?.....what about those poor inmates!

(I know, I know. I have too much time on my hands but I can't help myself)
 
Could she have been talking (and this really is a stab in the dark, the case from China where baby powder (if my memory serves right) was tainted with high levels of melamine?? If my memory serves right that case resulted in a death penalty case being pursued in China.
 
A microbiologist that has little understanding of chemistry? Or the value of sanitization? I confess I didn't do very well in chem, but I wouldn't mix up cyanuric acid with hydrogen cyanide. More danger from the microbes in unsanitary water or the sun than from cya.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Screen Shot 2018-08-23 at 2.48.41 PM.jpg

Here's the pertinents from the MSDS..... Did you review this with your wife? Every, and I mean EVERY- seriously EVERY pool and spa in the country/world contains CYA. If it was toxic/a carcinogen we would be dying off by the millions.
 
A part of the msds reads, "Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: May cause cancer based on animal test data" under Section 11 Toxicological Effects, Special remarks on Chronic Effects in Humans. This may be where wifey is getting concerned. The key word is Chronic, though. IMO, this usually means 24/7 exposure (in this case, ingesting and inhaling) for extended periods of time rather swimming for a couple hours in a pool. Not sure.
 
fredricr1 said:
A part of the msds reads, "Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: May cause cancer based on animal test data" under Section 11 Toxicological Effects, Special remarks on Chronic Effects in Humans. This may be where wifey is getting concerned. The key word is Chronic, though. IMO, this usually means 24/7 exposure (in this case, ingesting and inhaling) for extended periods of time rather swimming for a couple hours in a pool. Not sure.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I doubt the rats are swimming in a cya solution though. As you say ingesting and inhaling.

For the vast majority of pool owners who trust their water care to a pool shop/service, their cya is typically sky high. I know several people who have survived with no ill effects for 30+ years this way. I agree that any small risk is offset by the possible pathogens that could be spread by poor water quality.
 
fredricr1 said:
A part of the msds reads, "Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: May cause cancer based on animal test data" under Section 11 Toxicological Effects, Special remarks on Chronic Effects in Humans. This may be where wifey is getting concerned. The key word is Chronic, though. IMO, this usually means 24/7 exposure (in this case, ingesting and inhaling) for extended periods of time rather swimming for a couple hours in a pool. Not sure.
Click to expand...

Don't you live in California? This is basically like the Prop 65 warnings you see literally everywhere. Starbucks have it because coffee causes cancer. Pretty much everything causes cancer in sufficient quantities. If you are going to avoid everything that potentially can cause cancer you would need to go live... I don't even know where. Among some uncontacted tribe in the Amazon in a place so remote that air and water pollutants can't even reach.
 
Ok, let’s all take a break as AJB1234 and his wife are entitled to maintain their pool as they feel best. The question at hand is “can you maintain a pool with zero CYA using liquid chlorine?”

In some ways I’ll alter this question more, can you maintain ANY pool with zero CYA. The short answer is yes, but brace yourself. New York State actually bans the use of CYA in public pools as stated here. While part maybe (I don’t know, just assuming) due to health reasons a larger part I assume is to avoid public pools from getting to high of a level. One thing to keep in mind is a lot of public pools are indoor so that kinda removes the sunlight as a consumer of chlorine. To work around that in an outdoor pool dose nightly and again just before any swim sessions. Also plan on a diet of algacides as any assistance you can get to keep algae at bay is in your best interest. Lastly keep a very close eye on your pH and keep it on the low end. With zero CYA in the water it’s effectivness is increased, and again, any assistance you can get is necessary.

Personally I would really push to use cya as it’ll make your life a lot easier, but it is possible.
 
Shirker said:
I went back and searched your threads and found a pic of your water. Beautiful! I doubt it will ever get bad enough to make you sick (assuming it is just you guys swimming in it). I have swam in some pretty grody rivers/lakes/ponds before and have survived so far. If/When you start to have problems you will at least have some ideas of what might need to change.
Click to expand...

I was just reading with interest until I got to this post. You cannot judge a pool's safety by looking at it. You might be able to guess that water isn't safe if it looks bad, but just because it looks "beautiful" does not mean it is free of dangerous substances. If I remember my TFP studying correctly, algae is a nuisance and unattractive, but it won't kill you. (Is that all algae, or most?) But if you see algae, then your water is not properly sanitized, which means the other nasties you can't see could very likely be present.

Nobody wants to swim in chlorine and CYA, but if you're going to swim, those two are better than the alternatives!

Unless you're willing to sit by your pool and test it and dose it with a sanitizer every hour or so, you're playing with fire.
 
Ignoring the health risk aspect, the OP was asking if running without cya is possible.

Seems like it should be fine if he has a method of continuous dosing since the half life is well under an hour in sunlight. But it comes with significant problem in that with only 0.5 fc he will be susceptible to local consumption dropping very low in spots or even zero leading to unsanitary conditions or algae. That's probably why he found he needed higher fc levels to control algae.

Also even at 0.5 ppm fc he is running harsher levels than tfp. And at the 2.8 ppm he needed to prevent algae it is hugely more harsh than tfp.
 
Poolzzz said:
Ignoring the health risk aspect, the OP was asking if running without cya is possible.

Seems like it should be fine if he has a method of continuous dosing since the half life is well under an hour in sunlight. But it comes with significant problem in that with only 0.5 fc he will be susceptible to local consumption dropping very low in spots or even zero leading to unsanitary conditions or algae. That's probably why he found he needed higher fc levels to control algae.

Also even at 0.5 ppm fc he is running harsher levels than tfp. And at the 2.8 ppm he needed to prevent algae it is hugely more harsh than tfp.
Click to expand...

Actually, originally the OP asked if there were "Any concerns with..." running a pool without CYA, not whether it's possible. Of course it's possible, but the concerns are: additional expense and/or equipment and/or effort in maintaining an appropriate and safe level of FC, it's not going to be as comfortable even if you can, and you could potentially be risking your health to do so (anywhere from skin discomfort to all-out severe disease). So there is no "Ignoring the health risk aspect." That is the primary concern about running a pool without CYA. To maintain a comfortable swimming pool without CYA, you're risking unsanitary water. So far, the OP's been unable to do either, from the sound of it.

He later stated "Working on my own tfp without use of cya (if possible) to appease the wife."

Is that the sentence that morphed into "is it possible?" Yes it's possible to run a pool without CYA, but it's not possible to run a tfp without use of CYA. Big difference. There would be nothing "trouble free" about running a pool without CYA...
 
Thanks everyone for your help and support. Still waiting to speak to the wife. My guess is that she will probably say that the .5 FC can eventually be obtained through the removal of phosphates (over 10k) and by using ORP/UV (again, I know TFP members are not huge fans of ORP and feel removing phosphates is not necessary through proper balancing). Stay tuned but would appreciate any thoughts in advance on this that might be helpful. Very appreciative of the people chiming in and the TFP forum.
 
An indoor pool or a pool that is covered 99.9% of the time, your plan you state above will most likely work with times of trouble. But a wide open outdoor pool will be an issue. A flock of birds flying over will turn it into a mess in a hurry. Or a mouse or rat dead in the skimmer for a day or two. You have no chlorine 'bank' to fall back on.

If you are relying at all on Ozone/UV devices, they need to be commercial grade systems.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply