Any Heat pump users in the North East?

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whixkid41

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May 26, 2018
45
Long Island, NY
Hi All,

Construction is about to begin, last thing I need is a heater. The pool guy is pushing propane really hard vs. a heat pump - I have no natural gas. He is 100% convinced I will not be happy with a heat pump. So, any heat pump users in the North East? Happy/Unhappy? How's the electric bill? I am on Long Island - so I may get april - October (even if only the spa for April & October).

The pool is 21x36 3.5-5.5 feet deep - pond shape. If I go with a heat pump, I would likely go for the 125k BTU or if I can spring the extra cash, the 140k BTU. Since I am going with an easy touch setup with a Sta-right pump & Filter, I would likely opt for the UltraTemp line by Pentair.

Any experiences to share?
 
Having grown up on LI and lived under the despotism that was LIPA, I cringed when you mentioned heat pump & Long Island.....

Heat pumps add heat “low & slow” and need to be run on a continuous basis to keep a pool warm. They are NOT capable of quick spot heating. Propane is expensive but if you have a tank for your home, then your only cost is the heater install. If you have to buy the tank, permits, and installation...ouch, that’s going to hurt the wallet. However, a good gas heater can get a pool or spa warm fast.

No matter what heat source you choose, a bubble cover is an absolute must or else all the heat you spend money on adding during the day will all evaporate at night. An uncovered heated pool loses 6-8F overnight easily if the temperatures are low and there’s even the slightest breeze.
 
Whix:

I installed a heat pump. Only thing I can tell you is that I am happy with the installation. I can send you a link tomorrow on my findings, which are very thorough. A gas heater (of course will heat your pool twice as fast). With the solar cover (my pool is not that big), I am getting 1* per hour, without .5 degree per hour. This is of course in the a.m., very early. Based on my calculations, it is about 1/3 rd of the cost of natural gas (Propane I am not familiar with).

Although as Matt mentioned, it will not heat your pool fast and you will need to maintain the temperature. Mine is always set at 83* minimum in July and August, with June & September, the setting will be 85*. The sun gives me a 2* rise naturally without any covers. I have not been using the cover at all in July. Only used in June which we had cold nights.

The cost was almost the same, and only reason why I went with heat pump is that there were clearance issues for the gas vents and windows. I chose Gulfstream and have had no issues. My cost is about $1 per hour to run the heater. Max per month is about $100 to keep the pool at 85*, but it does take to around noon before reaching temperatures without the cover. The other thing to consider is pump run time. You will have to run your pump longer in the beginning and the end of the season, and this is where natural gas/propane is a better fit.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Having grown up on LI and lived under the despotism that was LIPA, I cringed when you mentioned heat pump & Long Island.....

Heat pumps add heat “low & slow” and need to be run on a continuous basis to keep a pool warm. They are NOT capable of quick spot heating. Propane is expensive but if you have a tank for your home, then your only cost is the heater install. If you have to buy the tank, permits, and installation...ouch, that’s going to hurt the wallet. However, a good gas heater can get a pool or spa warm fast.

No matter what heat source you choose, a bubble cover is an absolute must or else all the heat you spend money on adding during the day will all evaporate at night. An uncovered heated pool loses 6-8F overnight easily if the temperatures are low and there’s even the slightest breeze.
Click to expand...


Even under PSEG its highway robbery. The estimate I got for propane was $850+Permits fees (Crookhaven town so tack on another $300) for 2 100 gallon tanks, then the cost to install the heater. Guy said I should expect to fill the tanks 2x a season at about $600 a fill - obviously depending on propane price. I like the idea of being able to hookup my BBQ and fire pit and the heater itself is much cheaper than a heat pump. However, I figured even if the heat pump costs a little more now but over the long run saves me a few $$$, perhaps its the better move.

and yes, I will most definitely get a cover to put on at night to keep the heat in....
 
You might not want the hassle of the “customization” that this other thought of mine entails but there is a company called HotSpot FPH that makes a kit for hooking up a heat exchanger to a home A/C condenser so that the waste heat from your A/C unit goes into the pool. Being on LI I imagine you use your A/C quite a bit in the summer. The HotSpot is a custom install so you have to find a really, really smart HVAC guy (probably one that does commercial work during the day and residential on the down-low) to do the retro-fit.

Just a thought ....
 
Can I pretend Ohio North East? ;)

I too had one installed a few years ago and LOVE it. Depending on temps (say low 80’s) and such our 24,000 gallon pool can easily see a 1.5 degree per hour increase. We normally run ours from 9am to 3pm however when the ambient temps are slightly cooler and the pool isn’t in use due to the noise. At these temps however we see about 3/4 of a degree increase per hour. We keep ours around 88° during the hot summer months or about 82 once school is in as the pool isn’t used as much.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
You might not want the hassle of the “customization” that this other thought of mine entails but there is a company called HotSpot FPH that makes a kit for hooking up a heat exchanger to a home A/C condenser so that the waste heat from your A/C unit goes into the pool. Being on LI I imagine you use your A/C quite a bit in the summer. The HotSpot is a custom install so you have to find a really, really smart HVAC guy (probably one that does commercial work during the day and residential on the down-low) to do the retro-fit.

Just a thought ....
Click to expand...

That’s in its Guinea Pig phase, market penetration is not really there yet. & in CT regulation excludes Hvac from modifying pool/spa systems.

I collaborates on 2 installs. One is super pleased,
the other says, he wants a warm pool when it’s too cool to run his AC.
 
whixkid41 said:
Hi All,

Construction is about to begin, last thing I need is a heater. The pool guy is pushing propane really hard vs. a heat pump - I have no natural gas. He is 100% convinced I will not be happy with a heat pump. So, any heat pump users in the North East? Happy/Unhappy? How's the electric bill? I am on Long Island - so I may get april - October (even if only the spa for April & October).

The pool is 21x36 3.5-5.5 feet deep - pond shape. If I go with a heat pump, I would likely go for the 125k BTU or if I can spring the extra cash, the 140k BTU. Since I am going with an easy touch setup with a Sta-right pump & Filter, I would likely opt for the UltraTemp line by Pentair.

Any experiences to share?
Click to expand...

1533205d7d0ee0803961acc3de98910a.png
 
Hi pool guy
i saw a this old house video on this on YouTube. It seems like a great concept though in my case I don’t run the house a/c continuously enough and this install has to cost a bunch even if you can find someone with the knowledge.

my friend recommended a heat exchanger which connects to your house boiler which seems like s good idea as well and I have a high efficiency boiler. However I tried and couldn’t find anyone in my area who had heard of this at all.

So im just collecting feedback on heat pump and at this point will probably do it in spring.

Greg


PoolguyinCT said:
That’s in its Guinea Pig phase, market penetration is not really there yet. & in CT regulation excludes Hvac from modifying pool/spa systems.

I collaborates on 2 installs. One is super pleased,
the other says, he wants a warm pool when it’s too cool to run his AC.
Click to expand...
 

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JoyfulNoise said:
You might not want the hassle of the “customization” that this other thought of mine entails but there is a company called HotSpot FPH that makes a kit for hooking up a heat exchanger to a home A/C condenser so that the waste heat from your A/C unit goes into the pool. Being on LI I imagine you use your A/C quite a bit in the summer. The HotSpot is a custom install so you have to find a really, really smart HVAC guy (probably one that does commercial work during the day and residential on the down-low) to do the retro-fit.

Just a thought ....
Click to expand...

Hotspot FPH AC heat reclamation pool heater - a review!!

Heat Recovery Pool Heater | Compare To Solar Pool Heater | HotSpot Energy LLC
 
Maurino17 said:
Hi pool guy
i saw a this old house video on this on YouTube. It seems like a great concept though in my case I don’t run the house a/c continuously enough and this install has to cost a bunch even if you can find someone with the knowledge.

my friend recommended a heat exchanger which connects to your house boiler which seems like s good idea as well and I have a high efficiency boiler. However I tried and couldn’t find anyone in my area who had heard of this at all.

So im just collecting feedback on heat pump and at this point will probably do it in spring.

Greg
Click to expand...

If that’s what in your mind, I suggest looking into raypak indirect heat exchangers.
 
PoolguyinCT said:
If that’s what in your mind, I suggest looking into raypak indirect heat exchangers.
Click to expand...

Living in the desert and out west for so many years, I have forgotten that a good chunk of the country likes to burn hundreds of gallons of fuel oil #2 each winter to fire their water boilers for household heat (the thought brings back really BAD memories of run down Somerville, MA rental I lived in with 4 other guys that had banging hot water pipes and a foundation with a good 5 degree pitch to one corner of the building). In that case of water-boiler heating, having one of those heat exchangers makes more sense in the shoulder months and then switch over to a heat pump during the summer.
 
Whixkid:

No matter what, It is highly recommended you purchase as solar cover to retain the heat. This is the key to any heater, especially on the east coast. Your pool being of this size can accommodate a cover (cut in 3 ways as easier to roll up). You can even overlap the cover by about 2' on each cut. You will be amazed how much heat retention there is with the cover. You will need a 20*40 cover (cut nicely) or 25*40 cover (cut nicely). With my heat cover, I gain about 1* per hour.
 
Maurino17 said:
Hi
I actually have been talking to Raypak about their heat pumps and tech didn’t have much info on the heat exchanger or seem to recommend them. I just can’t seem to find anyone knowledgeable enough let alone someone who would install it.
Click to expand...

We have not decided if we will heat the pool yet. When it is cooler outside I really do not have a urge to jump in. So we are going to give it another season to see how it goes. The wife's family has a small oil company so we do get a discount (not free) on oil. So the Raypak would be a good fit for us if we do it ( @ poolguyCT Thanks for the link ).

We installed a high end unico heat system for the house that had heat pumps as a alternate heat source ( we could use the boiler heat or heat pump heat) . After doing the numbers and trying the heat pumps my conclusion was if I wanted to support my electric company and have a cold house I would use the heat pumps. I shut them off and now just use the good old oil. I think if you really do the numbers the costs are close but the heat pumps end up a bit more expensive and take away any (quick heat ) response time Wich limits how you use your heat.


As for finding a installer for the oil heat exchanger the tip about industrial boiler guy Is a good start. Many of them do after work jobs. They have wider range of experience to draw from then a guy that just installs residential boilers. You might want to look more for a pool technician that has a few of these under his belt as well. There are definitely a few things that need to be well thought out. I would imagine the poolguyCT would be able to help with this as well.
 
I’m definitely going to use a cover next year when I get a heater also when my landscape is back.

Great at tip on using smaller sections. I don’t want one of those big reels.

Catanzaro said:
Whixkid:

No matter what, It is highly recommended you purchase as solar cover to retain the heat. This is the key to any heater, especially on the east coast. Your pool being of this size can accommodate a cover (cut in 3 ways as easier to roll up). You can even overlap the cover by about 2' on each cut. You will be amazed how much heat retention there is with the cover. You will need a 20*40 cover (cut nicely) or 25*40 cover (cut nicely). With my heat cover, I gain about 1* per hour.
Click to expand...
 
whixkid41 said:
Hi All,

Construction is about to begin, last thing I need is a heater. The pool guy is pushing propane really hard vs. a heat pump - I have no natural gas. He is 100% convinced I will not be happy with a heat pump. So, any heat pump users in the North East? Happy/Unhappy? How's the electric bill? I am on Long Island - so I may get april - October (even if only the spa for April & October).

The pool is 21x36 3.5-5.5 feet deep - pond shape. If I go with a heat pump, I would likely go for the 125k BTU or if I can spring the extra cash, the 140k BTU. Since I am going with an easy touch setup with a Sta-right pump & Filter, I would likely opt for the UltraTemp line by Pentair.

Any experiences to share?
Click to expand...
I’m in East Quogue Long Island we have heat pump. Let me start by saying if we had gas I would of got a gas heater but we don’t. We would have had to run lines bla bla bla. This is out 3rd year with a heat pump Pentair 140. It does the job. We like water at 84 low to 86. Sun does keep water at 84. The pump doesn’t have to work hard. Electric is high there. If I use the heat pump in early spring and now in September the electric bill can be $100 a month more. We do not have a solar cover and I see the smoke coming off the pool in AM. After using this heater, we got smart and turn it on at 6 am and run it to 3 pm only. I find that it will heat water faster in day time. Water temp drops 2 deg at night.
 

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