CYA alternate test methods?

[Ralph III]

Hello All,
Are there any CYA test methods other than the reagent and black dot method? I have the Taylor kit but I just cannot figure out the CYA test because the black dot never disappears. I've performed it via manually stirring, via automatic stirring, outdoors, indoors, my back to sun, my face to sun, glancing at results, staring at results. That black dot is always seen.

Are there any test strips or any other test methods/kits that are worth considering because my Taylor kit method is useless to me.

Thanks,
Ralph

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ralph,

If the dot does not disappear it just means you have no, or not much, CYA in your pool...

Have you ever added any CYA (Stabilizer)?

What makes you think that the test is not valid? What do you believe your current CYA level should be?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Ralph III]

Hey Jim,
According to the Pool School recommendations my CYA should be between 70-80. However, I've been using the Taylor test method for a few months at our new home and there has never been a time when the dot completely disappeared? I've always been able to "see" the dot albeit cloudy/dim.


Just FYI, my other chemical test levels have remained quite stable and with a few exceptions within the desired range.

The pool appears clean and clear.......​

Salt(k-1766)....................3200
Chlorine...........................5-10
PH..................................7.2
FC..................................6.5 (a little high but lower than when I first began testing. I can cut back on SWG percentage?)
CC..................................0.5
TC..................................7.0
CH..................................75 (a little low but Pool School states not to add anything if levels are between 0-300)
TA..................................30-40 (a little low but I'm adding some backing soda tonight to get it at 60-80)


My CYA test results have always been questionable via the test kit because the dot never disappears, therefore less than 20-30?

Thanks,
Ralph

 

[Donldson]

Hey Jim,
According to the Pool School recommendations my CYA should be between 70-80. However, I've been using the Taylor test method for a few months at our new home and there has never been a time when the dot completely disappeared? I've always been able to "see" the dot albeit cloudy/dim.

In that time how much CYA have you been adding to try to get your level up?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ralph,

I second Donldson's /\ /\ /\ question?????

Jim R.

 

[Ralph III]

Hey Guys. I've never added CYA because I've never been able to get results in knowing how much to add. I've had my water tested at a few pool stores and they've never stated that I needed to add CYA that I recall?

Your advice is appreciated.
Ralph

 

[Donldson]

Now I'm confused. If the dot is still visible that means it is below the lowest readable level, whatever the number closest to the top of your test is. If you want it to be higher then you need to add more. How could the test show a different number if you aren't adding anything to change the number being tested?

I'm extra confused at your comment that the test is useless. You are getting repeatable results. That's one of the keys I look for in determining the usefulness of a test!

I'm not touching the pool store comment. Just... no.

 

[mknauss]

If you have NEVER added CYA to this pool since it was filled, you will have none. As you must add it to have it in the water.

 

[wogster]

Hey Guys. I've never added CYA because I've never been able to get results

in knowing how much to add​

. I've had my water tested at a few pool stores and they've never stated that I needed to add CYA that I recall?

Your advice is appreciated.
Ralph

Generally all tests have a low end and high end, so if your below the low end, you would add a small amount, to get a result that you can work from. For example if you do the pH test and you get below 7.0, you would raise it, until you get to or above 7.0, which gives you something to work with. Assume zero, feed that into Pool Math with the size of your pool and say a result of 10, add that, wait a day or so, and test again, this should give you a value you can work with. You can take a sample to 3 different pool stores and get 5 different answers, because the $6 an hour employee, doesn't have a vested interest in the result. Besides they would rather sell you a high margin magic potion, then something as low margin as stabiliser (CYA) where they have to compete with wally world and home despot prices.

 

[Ralph III]

I'm extra confused at your comment that the test is useless. You are getting repeatable results. That's one of the keys I look for in determining the usefulness of a test!

I'm not touching the pool store comment. Just... no.

Not very helpful and not exactly correct! There is no way of knowing whether I am getting "repeatable" results beyond the fact I am getting no useful results per the test kit. If the tube were 1/2 in longer maybe the dot disappears? Maybe the tube needs to be 3in longer before the dot disappears? Maybe there is a little CYA present and maybe there is no CYA present? Maybe I am just having issues performing this particular "dot" test and someone can recommend another method or advice?

Lastly, all of the derogatory and idiotic comments and attitudes taken toward pool stores is nonsensical. Its simply a form of snobbery. I've been testing my pool with the Taylor TF100 kit and have had two different pool stores test on occasion as well. Their overall results have been in line with mine so to think they are useless it ignorant. In addition, I can always say no to anything I do not want to purchase.

Lastly and in regards, nobody on this website has told me to add CYA either, until Wogsters post​

.

In giving a shout out to Leslies pool, they are repairing a p825 robotic cleaner under warranty for me at this very moment even though the unit didn't qualify. The main drive motor went out and the repair/replacement part would have cost around $500.00. So you can curse pool stores if you like but I'll just give thanks and praise when and where it is deserved.

God Bless,
Ralph

- - - Updated - - -

If you have NEVER added CYA to this pool since it was filled, you will have none. As you must add it to have it in the water.

We just purchased the home/pool a few months ago. I cannot say what the previous owners did or didn't do in the past. Thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Generally all tests have a low end and high end, so if your below the low end, you would add a small amount, to get a result that you can work from. For example if you do the pH test and you get below 7.0, you would raise it, until you get to or above 7.0, which gives you something to work with. Assume zero, feed that into Pool Math with the size of your pool and say a result of 10, add that, wait a day or so, and test again, this should give you a value you can work with. You can take a sample to 3 different pool stores and get 5 different answers, because the $6 an hour employee, doesn't have a vested interest in the result. Besides they would rather sell you a high margin magic potion, then something as low margin as stabiliser (CYA) where they have to compete with wally world and home despot prices.

Thanks Wogster. I wasn't sure if I could just add some CYA and then retest or if I should refrain from such. Nobody had ever suggested that. I actually added some last night and will re-test again tonight.

Ralph

 

[Donldson]

Well it appears we are done here Ralfie. Your inability to read a test is a failure on your reasoning abilities and not of the test.

If you have any other opinions of ours you believe are nonsensical (and don't think I missed you calling them idiotic before your edit) please let us know. Otherwise please enjoy getting pool stored. If you read even a small fraction of the awful advice, testing, and money wasting products sold to people who have posted here you would know better.

I will be adding you to my ignore list so I do not have any further displeasure of speaking with you in the future. Best of luck with your pool, sounds like you will need it.

EDIT: I want to be sure it is understood by others reading this that my reaction is not because OP can't read the test. The CYA test can be difficult and a lot of people have trouble interpreting it initially. No, the issue is attitude. When you can't read the CYA test, it isn't that you might not be getting it right, it must be faulty! (reminds me of that scene from Blazing Saddles where the the governor can't use a paddleball and calls it broken, then his assistant picks it up and uses it immediately while agreeing with him) Then, you not adding CYA when you need more is because we didn't tell you that you needed to add CYA to increase the CYA level. And finally, when we consistently refer to pool stores in the manner we do, it can't be because of their horrendous track record (and especially not a track record that is recorded on this site easily viewable by anybody), it is all just a case of snobbery!

For someone who has trouble figuring these things out but has a good attitude about it and realizes that they might just not be understanding something, I would be happy to help that person every step of the way. That is not the situation played out in this thread.

 

[jmikeb]

i’m surprised that no one mentioned the 50ppm standard sample you can purchase from TFkits. then one can practice until they build a little confidence in their reading ability

 

[laprjns]

But you are getting useful results. You have less than 20 ppm of CYA. Add enough dry stabilizer to bring your cya up by 20 ppm, which for a 25k gallon pool is 66 oz or 4 lbs. You should end up with a cya level between 20 and 40 ppm.

 

[Ralph III]

Well it appears we are done here Ralfie. Your inability to read a test is a failure on your reasoning abilities and not of the test.

If you have any other opinions of ours you believe are nonsensical (and don't think I missed you calling them idiotic before your edit) please let us know. Otherwise please enjoy getting pool stored. If you read even a small fraction of the awful advice, testing, and money wasting products sold to people who have posted here you would know better.

I will be adding you to my ignore list so I do not have any further displeasure of speaking with you in the future. Best of luck with your pool, sounds like you will need it.

EDIT

: I want to be sure it is understood by others reading this that my reaction is not because OP can't read the test. The CYA test can be difficult and a lot of people have trouble interpreting it initially. No, the issue is attitude. When you can't read the CYA test, it isn't that you might not be getting it right, it must be faulty! (reminds me of that scene from Blazing Saddles where the the governor can't use a paddleball and calls it broken, then his assistant picks it up and uses it immediately while agreeing with him) Then, you not adding CYA when you need more is because ​

we

didn't tell you that you needed to add CYA to increase the CYA level. And finally, when we consistently refer to pool stores in the manner we do, it can't be because of their horrendous track record (and especially not a track record that is recorded on this site easily viewable by anybody), it is all just a case of snobbery!

For someone who has trouble figuring these things out but has a good attitude about it and realizes that they might just not be understanding something, I would be happy to help that person every step of the way. That is not the situation played out in this thread.​

Your post says it all and speaks poorly of you Donaldson!


1. I asked for advice because I wasn't sure if I just wasn't grasping the test? There is no shame in that and I clearly noted that in my original post. Consequently, I inquired if there was a good alternate method that I may consider? You simply replied with a derogatory post toward myself and pool stores to boot. Now you're resorting to personal attacks and insults but let others be the judge of that.


2. I don't care what your experience is with pool stores. I have had a pleasant experience and the folks have always been quite helpful. Yes, people may have had some bad experiences with salespeople or pool stores but you don't completely disregard people or an industry because of such....

3. You know nothing about my cognitive abilities or education and childish insults speak volumes. I'm well respected and get paid quite well to be THE problem solver. This is the first pool we have ever had and I've done an excellent job thus far minus this CYA challenge. I will maintain the pool myself but I will not discard others opinions simply because they do not fit into your "club".


4. A test is only good if it is helpful. In this instance my CYA test is of no help because it cannot tell me anything in regards to the amount of CYA in my pool. I use quite a number of precision instruments and tests in my field. You wouldn't opt to cut an electrical line upon getting questionable results from an instrument or test. That would be quite stupid and could end up getting someone killed. You would instead opt to confirm whether a line or piece of equipment is energized or not via other means.

5. I didn't delete my "idiotic" reference of which is still posted nor was it directed at any specific person, only an attitude. If you want to make derogatory remarks toward people and businesses then don't get your undies in a knot when such happens to you.

Despite what you may think, I have a clearer idea of what needs to be done at this time and such was gathered from others on this excellent forum.

Ralph

​

- - - Updated - - -

But you are getting useful results. You have less than 20 ppm of CYA. Add enough dry stabilizer to bring your cya up by 20 ppm, which for a 25k gallon pool is 66 oz or 4 lbs. You should end up with a cya level between 20 and 40 ppm.

Thank you! That is the type of advice I was looking for. I added 2lbs last night and will test again tonight. I may go ahead and add the other 2lbs tonight per your suggestion.

God Bless,
Ralph

- - - Updated - - -

​

 

[Jonesy]

Ralph, for what it’s worth, I doubted my CYA test as well, however I did order the Standard Solutions when I ordered my TF100. I used the CYA one and it just clicked seeing what one SHOULD look like.
I haven’t seen any other more reliable tests for CYA either, but then again, I’m new at this too. But yes, the black dot seemed a bit, sketchy, to me at first. But it works, my pool is crystal clear and we are loving it.
Oh, the SpeedStirrer is a must imho - I was spilling samples all over the place until I opened the stirrer and figured out how to use it.....

 

[DaneCE]

Keep in mind that you can pour the test sample back into the bottle that it was mixed in and try the test again. I always do the test twice to confirm what I was seeing the first time.

 

[Ralph III]

Ralph, for what it’s worth, I doubted my CYA test as well, however I did order the Standard Solutions when I ordered my TF100. I used the CYA one and it just clicked seeing what one SHOULD look like.
I haven’t seen any other more reliable tests for CYA either, but then again, I’m new at this too. But yes, the black dot seemed a bit, sketchy, to me at first. But it works, my pool is crystal clear and we are loving it.
Oh, the SpeedStirrer is a must imho - I was spilling samples all over the place until I opened the stirrer and figured out how to use it.....

Quote DanceCE......"

Keep in mind that you can pour the test sample back into the bottle that it was mixed in and try the test again. I always do the test twice to confirm what I was seeing the first time." ​

Thanks Jonesy and DanceCE!

Yes, my pool is pristine also and all of my numbers per the Taylor TF100 kit and two others are spot on. Consequently, I didn't want to just start adding chemicals (CYA) to my pool without knowing how much to add or how it would affect it. So advice from this forum has been much appreciated. The CYA was obviously just to low for the test to show and it wasn't my testing method. I haven't checked it since adding the last 1.5lbs but my CYA was showing right at 40 after adding the 2.5lbs the other night. I suspect it should be right around 80 now but will test today sometime.


Thanks again for all of the help and input.

Ralph

 

[Knjakeman]

I wish they had a drop test for CYA and PH !


26700 gal, vinyl, SWG, Hayward Goldline controls, T-15 Cell, 20gpm/ft2 sand filter, 1 hp pump , Taylor K-2006 test kit

 

[calstar]

Ralph,

If the dot does not disappear it just means you have no, or not much, CYA in your pool...

Just to clarify does this mean the dot is completely invisible without even a hint or it showing?

thanks, Brian

 

[simonoaks]

Once you have the CYA at 70-80, you will want to turn down the % on the SWG , until you find it equalized .