My SLAM and Filtration Issues

Mendy48

Bronze Supporter
Apr 27, 2018
1,008
Midland, MI
Quick Question!!!

I'm just trying to learn here...When you vacuum on waste, isn't the water from the pool getting pumped out...yet, you're vacuuming at the same time? Let's say you have just enough water for the pool already, when you vacuum on waste, wouldn't that lower the quantity of water in your pool? I'm new to this forum and I'm just trying to understand.

I'm SLAMMing my pool right...P.O.P is very important during this process for sure...
 
Yes, vacuuming on waste will pump water directly out of the pool, which is useful if you want to get junk out of the pool that's either big enough to stress your filter out, or so small it runs through your filter. The down side is that it will quickly lower your water level.
 
Excellent explanation... I wish I knew how to put the Duda bags on my return jets. I've never messed around with my return jets so I don't even know ow to pull them out. I would really love to use the Duda bags though. Could you send a link to where to buy some? I just need to know how to install them. Some clear instructions because I'm not really handy with return jets or any instrumentation. LOL

Yeah I'm sorry, I had a feeling I was going to freak everyone out with that above 20 psi warning. No worries though...It won't cause any significant immediate damage. I only heed the warning because I can hear my motor and impeller straining to circulate at a faster rate, but can't because of the back pressure. I have absolutely 0 experience with sand and de filtration systems. As the pool I inherited when I bought our home 6 years ago made me a first time pool owner. I have no idea how long the previous owner had this pump for or how long it was service for, but she's been going strong every year with no issues. I understand all the filtration methods and how and what equipment uses them, but for my pool its exclusively cartridge filter. The only reason why I heeded that warning is because I've heard here at TFP that you shouldn't let cartridge filters get up to 25-30 psi because it may damage the pleats. Myself being involved in the electrical and solar trades, when I listen to the strain that's being placed on the impeller on the motor, although it hasn't been proven as of yet, I just suspect and assume that eventually with prolonged use like several years of continually operating at 30 psi that it will overheat the brushes and coils and wear down the motor with time and repeated prolonged use operating it like that.

For all I know tolerances and back pressure could be different with a Sand Filtration or DE filtration system, so just as a rule of thumb I recommend to keep the back pressure below 20 psi. Not trying to scare anyone here into not utilizing a good proven method in filtration. You should be fine using the bag the and the skimmer sock. Just do your diligence with it that's all. If your pool is cloudy blue and you don't have as much Gunk to filter out, you should be running around 12 to 14 PSI with the duda bag and the skimmer sock. If your pool is green and you have more algae to filter out then it will hit 20 psi which is still fairly safe. Again because I only have a one speed pump, what I do to alleviate back pressure is I throttle back to return ball check valve to 1/4 turn off, and I do the same for the inlet ball check valve to even out the pressure. The pump and filter filters slower like this, but that's okay too because when you're trapping really fine sediment you want the filtrate a little bit slower anyway, so it catches a little more gunk each time.

Again just a rule of thumb and guideline if your filtering out a lot of green Gunk just check it every hour and check the PSI every hour and keep cleaning and rinsing the sock and the bag. Once your pool clears it should maintenance itself at 12-14 psi with the bag and skimmer sock. When I just use my skimmer sock without the bag I usually run about 9 to 10 PSI clean pressure.

The theory behind filtration, any filtration whether it be Sand, DE, or Cartridge is that you want it to load up a little bit and run it a little dirty so it can filter out the finer particles. The side effects is as the secondary filters such as your skimmer sock or duda bag loads up and filters out finer particles is that more back pressure is created. I guess the best way to explain this is. If I was to just run the skimmer sock eventually it will get clogged with debris if the debris is floating around in the pool. So what happens is it creates a negative pressure, vaccum, or a higher amount of suction on the skimmer basket itself which is plastic. Over the time and course of a season I have cracked the ring on my skimmer baskets if I let my skimmer sock load up too much. No big deal I keep a couple of extra handy. They are only 8 bucks. Because my Duda bag is post pump, and not pre pump like the skimmer basket. The duda bag is on the return jet post pump and cartridge filter. When it loads up it creates positive pressure, so you have to continuously clean the secondary filters meaning the skimmer sock and the bag. Once your pool is as clear as glass, and you no longer see any residue on your skimmer sock or your duda bag, you are crystal sparkling clear. From there on out you only have to run the skimmer sock to prohibit frequent primary filter cleanings such as you're sand, DE, or cartridge. I only clean my cartridge twice a year or season. Once after I run the pool Crystal Clear with the bag and the skimmer sock, and then I clean it at the end of the season before I put it away for the winter.

Realistically, if I wanted to I could just eliminate the cartridge filter all together and just run the pool on The Duda bag. I use the Duda bag for polishing the water. Its like the skimmer sock filters at 40 micron, or whatever it is, the cartridge filter filters out of 10 micron, then The Duda bag filters out at 5 micron. So it really is over redundant filtration, but it gets me that clear as glass sparkling water. Once I am crystal clear I really no longer need the Duda bag. It's just handy for polish in the water when it looks dull and filtering out really fine algae, when and if I have it, that I would otherwise flocculant to the bottom of the pool, if I didn't have the bag. I hope this explains the relationship of things and a better understanding of how things work.

Here are some pictures of my setup for those who are visual learners.
 
Here you go Duda Diesel Bag.
EBay $5.35

Sewn Industrial Filter Sock Bags Water Liquid Biodiesel WVO Oil Dust Fuel Diesel | eBay


Select in the drop down.


Single Polyester Felt Heat Treated
Size: 4"x 14 "
Micron 5
Qty: 1 or however many you want....

I don't have an inground pool with multiple Jets I only have one return jet on my pool. If you have multiple eyeball jets. I would presume that you would have two options you can block off a few of the eyeball Jets and use one or two to filter with the bag, but I again would assume that would create a lot of back pressure. Or you can buy a bag for each jet and really speed things up.

Again installation is simple. You just unscrew your eyeball jet counterclockwise. Take your brand new Duda diesel bag, and cut the ring off of it with a scissor. Take a hose clamp and fit the bag around a 90-degree elbow, and clamp it tight with the hose clamp so the bag does not blow off under pressure. Now take the elbow and screw it into the socket where your eyeball jet was clockwise. Gently seat it, and then back off a turn. The reason why I say this. Is because the plastic threads on the elbow are a bit longer then a eyeball socket thread. I don't want anyone cracking their eyeball return housing from over-tightening. Remember that these threads and sockets are made out of plastic or PVC, which are exposed to sunlight and chlorine.
 
Great and thorough explanation Robert thank you very much! Robert, I do have a question. How do you contain the duda bag while you are pressure washing it? I can only see it flying across my yard. lol


Madyogi, in my opinion, the rapid rise is because you have added enough that it is immediately effective which is why the rapid rise.. it's working and catching all that junk and since you and I to a lesser extent still have junk in our water, you should expect it to rapidly rise each time because its working.

Now, I am not sure if there is a level where there is too much but you are talking about 1 cup and your sand filter as I recall is large, so I would think when you are available run at the 1 cup and get that turn over as fast as possible, no sense in delaying the removal process.

Today, I have run 3/4 cup and am into my 2nd bag (it came as 2 bags last year when I bought them off Amazon) now and it really started kicking in when I swept the pool.

So I would backwash, replace the Fiber Clear, sweep and in 2 hours would go from 9psi to 15psi with low flow out of returns which is basically my visual gauge of when to check my filter pressure. I will check it again here in just a minute, and repeat that process. I will be home all weekend and plan to get as many cycles done as I can. My fear is I will run out of Fiber Clear and will order more and my duda bags "should" be here next week. So hopefully, I will be progressing to those anyway as I suspect they will do as good if not better.
 
Elbow is Hayward SPX1105Z4. Do a search for it on Google it can be had anywhere between $4 and $8. You can also pick it up at your local pool store or Leslie's, if you don't feel like paying for shipping or waiting a few days.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't have to necessarily pressure wash the Duda bag. I just drop mine right over the top of my storm grate, and blast it quickly with a pressure washer it gets all the gunk out, and turns the bag white again. You can just as easily take it to your sink in your kitchen, and blast it with the spray jet at your sink, with as hot water as possible, and still get good results in cleaning it. It will probably be about 80 to 90% clean using the sink spray jet method with the hot water. The cumbersome part of it, is you have to turn the bag inside out and rinse it, then turn it right side in again and rinse, until your rinse runs clear. Other than that you just hook it back up to the Elbow, tighten the hose clamp, screw it back in the eyeball Jet, and turn on your pump. It's really easy.
 
Mendy, I have an in ground pool with three returns along one side and two at the steps. I ordered one bag and the Hayward elbow linked to in a previous post on this thread. Once that stuff comes in next week, I plan to hook it up as Robert explained, to one of the return jets on the side of my pool, and reduce the flow coming through the others, just to isolate the jet with the dudabag. Not sure how well this will work, really, there are several variables at play, but it will be an interesting experiment, and I'll report back here about how things go.

In the meantime, funandsun seems to have confirmed my suspicion that the rapid rise is probably an indicator of an effective level of DE. Since I will be home all weekend, I will plan to run several of these 2-4 hour cycles with the 1 cup of DE. The only issue is water level, as every time I backwash for 2-3 minutes followed by 30 seconds of rinse, it takes a fair amount of fresh water from the hose to refill. I'll stick with it, though, because even after just a couple of cycles, the water seems less green and more just cloudy.
 
When you start using the 5 micron filter bag, you'll probably never have to buy DE or Fiber clear ever again. Because it is mechanically and effectively filtering out the same Micron level as DE or fiber clear would. The best part about it is it would effectively reduce or completely eliminate any backwashing. Which equals keeping your water and lowering your water bills, your conditioner for cya, and consumption on chlorine. Because think about it... The chlorine sanitizes the water, but when you filter out all the crud out of the water, the chlorine doesn't have to work as hard, and you're not losing the cya every time you do a partial drain and refill. So you're saving a ton of money just by buying a $5 bag.

I'll go one even more efficient... This year I got smart. I tried this this year when I opened my pool green, and It sped up my turn around time. I just got clear Wednesday and it only took me 5 days from Saturday.

I filtered everything out first, just so I could see the bottom. When the water was clear green to almost blue, I then added in my bleach. I only had to add maybe use 2 to 3 gallons of 6% bleach on a 7200 gal 18ft x 4ft pool over five days to get to and maintain SLAM levels at FC 20 ppm.

Now I'm at the point where I'm just polishing the water to sparkling clear
 
Yes, all of that has been swirling around my head since earlier this week whenever I first read your post about the dudabag. Pretty much been non stop thinking through it. Figured today was the day to order them and lets give this a ride. Doesn't hurt to have a new friend like madyogi & Mendy who are also willing to try new things. Makes it fun to have someone else with a pool to compare experiments with.
 

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Got email notification, Fed-Ex home delivery will be Tuesday for my duda's. Oh man, maybe I should stop the slam, would hate for the worst to be over and not get a chance to battle test these babies. KIDDING! Will be plenty of floaties passing through my 800 Micron sized sand filter system. Kidding! it's 600 Micron.
 
I'm with you, funandsun, just a bit concerned I'll have most of this knocked out before the duda gets here. And to make matters worse, I ordered the .5 micron bag yesterday, not the 5 micron bag, so I'll be getting a bag that's way too use in a pool setting first, but I ordered the 5 micron bag today, so it's on the way. Should be here Tuesday or Wednesday next week.

Either, my wife and I were outside sprucing up the sitting area a bit, and for the first time, she said "Hey, looks like the pool is finally clearing up a bit!"

Major step forward, even if there's still a way to go :)
 
So? Who wants to be the first to test pilot the 0.5 micron bag?... Lol...Someone on this forum I read tonight did indeed test pilot the 1 micron bag with good success in filtering out fire ash out of their pool from a large forest fire near their home,because they live in California.
 
So? Who wants to be the first to test pilot the 0.5 micron bag?... Lol...Someone on this forum I read tonight did indeed test pilot the 1 micron bag with good success in filtering out fire ash out of their pool from a large forest fire near their home,because they live in California.

Yep, I read that today too. Did you read the one where he had the sheet of it and rolled // wrapped his cartridge pole with it?

That was interesting as heck!

yep, was talking with a friend of mine today, he asked me.. so did you order the 1micron too? we laughed.
 
RobertScalchi, looking at the the Duda Diesel filter bag, which material did you use and which size? They have a lot of choices for material and I'm not sure they will all stand up to the harshness of chlorine. Polyester Felt, Polyester Mesh, Nylon Mesh, Polypropylene, PTFE Coated? Welded or non-welded?
 
The hairnets are big enough that they fill the inside of my skimmer basket and wrap around the entire outside too. And you don't have to deal with cleaning them out, just pull them off the basket and toss in trash, lol.
Those hair nets being as they could be one time use. You could put them in your inline leaf canister(like the larger Hayward one with the net bag inside) when vacuuming your pool and then just toss them. I might try that.
 
Thanks Robert. I'm going to order mine today and take it from there. I'll report back as to my status. It should be a fun task for me. It may take me some time to operate this, but I know I can do it with your explanation. Thanks again. Appreciate it.

Here you go Duda Diesel Bag.
EBay $5.35

Sewn Industrial Filter Sock Bags Water Liquid Biodiesel WVO Oil Dust Fuel Diesel | eBay


Select in the drop down.


Single Polyester Felt Heat Treated
Size: 4"x 14 "
Micron 5
Qty: 1 or however many you want....

I don't have an inground pool with multiple Jets I only have one return jet on my pool. If you have multiple eyeball jets. I would presume that you would have two options you can block off a few of the eyeball Jets and use one or two to filter with the bag, but I again would assume that would create a lot of back pressure. Or you can buy a bag for each jet and really speed things up.

Again installation is simple. You just unscrew your eyeball jet counterclockwise. Take your brand new Duda diesel bag, and cut the ring off of it with a scissor. Take a hose clamp and fit the bag around a 90-degree elbow, and clamp it tight with the hose clamp so the bag does not blow off under pressure. Now take the elbow and screw it into the socket where your eyeball jet was clockwise. Gently seat it, and then back off a turn. The reason why I say this. Is because the plastic threads on the elbow are a bit longer then a eyeball socket thread. I don't want anyone cracking their eyeball return housing from over-tightening. Remember that these threads and sockets are made out of plastic or PVC, which are exposed to sunlight and chlorine.
 
Hey sorry... Cooking breakfast, washing diapers, and changing babies... Lol...Honestly I can't remember which material I actually ordered. I browsed the drop down menu a few days ago. If you select the size 4x14" 5 micron or 1 micron first. The only selection left you have is Single Polyester Felt Heat Treated. Its the only selection left by default in the drop down.

Common sense tells me you don't want polypropylene glazed, or coated in your water. As far as the nylon selection, again because the single polyester felt heat treated is the only option left, I don't see the nylon option being relevant.
 
As long as it takes my filter to clean the water, I am now convinced we should have gone with a much much larger filter. Sand is slow but dang, 3 full days of filtering and I am still far from clear.

The Duda will help but I will for sure be looking for a much needed improvement. Basically losing a whole month of time because of my undersized filter. (Sand was replaced with new sand last year.)
 

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