My SLAM and Filtration Issues

[RobertScalchi]

I'm sure that there are resources on here that can tell you what size horsepower pump and filter is recommended for the gallon size of your pool. I have browsed them before in the past, just don't know where to find them at the moment I'll search in a little while. I would recommend with a pool generally of your size you want a pump motor that's at least one horsepower or stronger. There are ratings of water gallon turnover rate with different size canisters sand filters cartridge filters Etc for how many gallons you have in your pool. My one and a half horsepower motor should turn over my pool completely in 8 to 10 hours for my 7200 gal. Pool.

It looks to me right now that you are at cloudy blue. Stick with what you have for right now as far as your primary filtration. The Duda diesel bags at 5 Micron will take it from here. It will get you clear within three or four days.

I am going to recommend that you record your clean starting operating pressure which should generally be between 9 psi and 12 psi, check your bags, your skimmer sock or hair net if it is loading up with gunk, and your PSI every hour, and DO NOT ALLOW THE POSITIVE BACK PRESSURE OF THE BAGS, or THE NEGATIVE PRESSURE VACUUM OF YOUR SKIMMER SOCKS OR HAIRNETS, RAISE YOUR PSI ABOVE 18 TO 20 PSI. Or 10 psi above clean starting pressure. It will put a mild strain on the pump motor and skimmer basket with prolonged use over long periods of time. The more clogged that your primary or secondary filters get the better they are filtrating effectively, but this also obstructs water flow and creates pressure on your primary filter and pump. Over time of rinsing your secondary filters like your bag and your skimmer sock, or hair net, your water will get clearer, and the skimmer sock and bag will load up less, appear cleaner, thus creating less back pressure. Even though my water is clear right now it is not crystal sparkling clear. I have been running my Duda bag and skimmer sock since yesterday at 4:30 pm which is about 18 hrs. I am only at 12 to 14 psi.

The reason why your pool is at the cloudy blue stage right now, that's because the algae which is now dead, has turned white, and has to be filtered out by the five Micron bag. You will see it as brown residue on your skimmer sock and Diesel bag when it gets filtered out properly.

 

[Mendy48]

Ordered my Duda bag... thanks for the link. Can't wait for it to show up at my mail. Oh! by the way, Do I have to get my own hose clamp from Home Depot or something like that? I don't think this Duda bag comes with one... if I'm correct. I have there return jets, and I plan on using on just one for now.



Also, does the Duda bag increase the psi on my filter? Right now, my psi is at a 15 and I'm worried with the pressure from the Duda bag, it would go up or something like that. What do I do when that happens? I know you mentioned it before, but I can't find your response to that.

Here you go Duda Diesel Bag.
EBay $5.35

Sewn Industrial Filter Sock Bags Water Liquid Biodiesel WVO Oil Dust Fuel Diesel | eBay


Select in the drop down.


Single Polyester Felt Heat Treated
Size: 4"x 14 "
Micron 5
Qty: 1 or however many you want....

I don't have an inground pool with multiple Jets I only have one return jet on my pool. If you have multiple eyeball jets. I would presume that you would have two options you can block off a few of the eyeball Jets and use one or two to filter with the bag, but I again would assume that would create a lot of back pressure. Or you can buy a bag for each jet and really speed things up.

Again installation is simple. You just unscrew your eyeball jet counterclockwise. Take your brand new Duda diesel bag, and cut the ring off of it with a scissor. Take a hose clamp and fit the bag around a 90-degree elbow, and clamp it tight with the hose clamp so the bag does not blow off under pressure. Now take the elbow and screw it into the socket where your eyeball jet was clockwise. Gently seat it, and then back off a turn. The reason why I say this. Is because the plastic threads on the elbow are a bit longer then a eyeball socket thread. I don't want anyone cracking their eyeball return housing from over-tightening. Remember that these threads and sockets are made out of plastic or PVC, which are exposed to sunlight and chlorine.

 

[madyogi]

I would definitely expect the Duda bag to raise the pressure in the system. My plan is to completely close the returns on my stairs (they share one ball valve), and probably shut one of the other returns completely, while putting elbow with duda bag on one of the remaining returns. This will raise the pressure of my system, so I will probably shut the main drain off in or to compensate. This will basically two returns open post-pump and the skimmer open pre-pump. If you could post a shot of your input/output valves, we could probably help you get a strategy together.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, so I passed the OCLT last night. No loss of FC, and CC about .5! Pool is still definitely green, though, even if it does seem more cloudy than green. Should I assume the OCLT is an indication I can let the FC level drift back down to ideal, or should I keep my foot on the pedal until green color is also gone?

 

[Mendy48]

Thanks Mady.. I'll definitely keep the shock level in check. One of the criteria to pass OCLT is that the water has to be crystal clear, so you will have to continue SLAMing your pool.

P.S.... what do you mean by input and output valve...what am I looking for? What do I do if my PSI goes up? Should I backwash and rinse. I'm still new to this.

I would definitely expect the Duda bag to raise the pressure in the system. My plan is to completely close the returns on my stairs (they share one ball valve), and probably shut one of the other returns completely, while putting elbow with duda bag on one of the remaining returns. This will raise the pressure of my system, so I will probably shut the main drain off in or to compensate. This will basically two returns open post-pump and the skimmer open pre-pump. If you could post a shot of your input/output valves, we could probably help you get a strategy together.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, so I passed the OCLT last night. No loss of FC, and CC about .5! Pool is still definitely green, though, even if it does seem more cloudy than green. Should I assume the OCLT is an indication I can let the FC level drift back down to ideal, or should I keep my foot on the pedal until green color is also gone?

 

[funandsun]

Mendy is this going to be a hoot, you, madyogi and I all looking to get our duda's going about the same time (this next week), should be quite the show! Have your camera ready, we are going to have show and tell until we are perfect!

Ordered my Duda bag... thanks for the link. Can't wait for it to show up at my mail. Oh! by the way, Do I have to get my own hose clamp from Home Depot or something like that? I don't think this Duda bag comes with one... if I'm correct. I have there return jets, and I plan on using on just one for now.

View attachment 77132

Also, does the Duda bag increase the psi on my filter? Right now, my psi is at a 15 and I'm worried with the pressure from the Duda bag, it would go up or something like that. What do I do when that happens? I know you mentioned it before, but I can't find your response to that.

View attachment 77133

 

[Mendy48]

I'll definitely have my camera ready...Can't wait.

Mendy is this going to be a hoot, you, madyogi and I all looking to get our duda's going about the same time (this next week), should be quite the show! Have your camera ready, we are going to have show and tell until we are perfect!

 

[funandsun]

Right, I actually ordered a duda yesterday or the day before. Should be here by Monday at the latest. I don't yet have an elbow to get it attached to my return. Could I just get something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SPX1105Z4-2-Inch-Elbow-Adapter/dp/B004VJSPOO/

I was planning to attach it to the last return in the deep end, where there is currently an eyeball. I assume the threading on returns are pretty standard, and that it's easy to swap out components like this?

I just ordered 2 of these, will be here Wednesday, bags should be here tomorrow. I forgot to order them yesterday, ugh.

 

[Mendy48]

Q1: I'm just worried about my psi going up. I still don't know what to do if this happens when I put on the Duda bags on one of my return jets. I've heard of this happening, but I don't know what to do if it does. Still waiting for an answer!!! or maybe I missed the answer somewhere along this thread LOL.

Q2: Also, the clamp the Duda bag on the return jets, do I need to buy a particular clamp from home deport or something. If so, what type of clamp. I'm no handy with equipment usage, so I don't know what to get once my Duda bag gets here.

Q3: And I have to order this too? Ohhh I didn't know... Is this the correct link to order it?

https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SPX11...dp/B004VJSPOO/

I just ordered 2 of these, will be here Wednesday, bags should be here tomorrow. I forgot to order them yesterday, ugh.

 

[funandsun]

Q1: I'm just worried about my psi going up. I still don't know what to do if this happens when I put on the Duda bags on one of my return jets. I've heard of this happening, but I don't know what to do if it does. Still waiting for an answer!!! or maybe I missed the answer somewhere along this thread LOL.

Q2: Also, the clamp the Duda bag on the return jets, do I need to buy a particular clamp from home deport or something. If so, what type of clamp. I'm no handy with equipment usage, so I don't know what to get once my Duda bag gets here.

Q3: And I have to order this too? Ohhh I didn't know... Is this the correct link to order it?

https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SPX11...dp/B004VJSPOO/

Yes, assuming you have a hayward return/skimmer set up, you can lift the skimmer cover and see the H icon or life the skimmer basket itself and see what the model number is.

I have Hayward so this will work for me.

Yes, apparently need a Stainless Steel hose clamp, I would wait and get the elbow and then take it in with you so you get the right size clamp.

I will be posting pictures once my gear arrives and show how I do mine.

As far as the pressure rise goes, I have a sand filter and a variable speed pump, so I plan to reduce the speed of my pump to offset any negative effects from psi build up. Again, I will include any adjustments in my report.

 

[madyogi]

To Mendy,

My understanding is the pvc elbow in the link above will work for you, particularly if you have hayward filter, though I think the threading for in-ground pool returns is pretty standard, so the hayward may not even matter that much. And getting a hose clamp suitable for this scenario should not be hard, especially if you have a home depot or lowe's nearby, just look for stainless steel and get one big enough to accommodate the diameter of the elbow with the bag around it. The only thing left is to get a good strategy together for helping you handle the pressure changes with confidence.

Here is the general picture as I understand it: adding the duda bag to your system will increase pressure by decreasing the flow of water out of your filter back to your pool (this is the return side, post-pump). You can balance this out by decreasing the pace of water coming into the pump by closing off your skimmer or main drain (this is the intake side, pre-pump). Of course the down side is that this reduces the rate at which water moves through your system.

With that general description, every individual circumstance will require some tweaking. I have to do this every time I run my polaris 360. It runs off a standard return jet, and is powered from my 1.5 hp pump that runs the whole system. I have four ball valves on the return side and two on the intake side. To dial in the pressure right and get the polaris running properly, I usually close off two or three of my four return valves, which raises the pressure significantly. Then I also close off the intake valve from my main drain a bit to compensate.

So now we're left with trying to help you figure out your system. Like I said sometime earlier, it looks to me like you have one valve to reduce intake right before your pump. Can you tell if you have any options for controlling the return, or can you take a more detailed shot of the left side of your system so we can help?

 

[RobertScalchi]

If your psi goes up as a result of effective filtration of the bags, simply remove them, bring them to your sink and rinse them with hot water with the spray jet. Or better yet, if you have a small power washer, clean it with that.Just make sure that you stop your pump when you get 10 psi or 25% above clean starting pressure. You may have to turn them inside out, then outside in a few times to rinse them clear. You can buy a hose clamp from any auto parts store hardware store, etc. For convenience of bag removal from elbow, I recommend a hose clamp with a turn key on them, rather than to use a flathead screwdriver.

 

[Mendy48]

Ok! both the elbow and the Duda bag should be coming this Friday...So I'm all set with that. Once I get both items funandsun, I'll go to Home Depot and get a stainless steel clamp. I'm sure someone will help me at the store. I can't wait to see how you did yours funandsun.

As far as my pool equipments are concern, I have all Hayward equipments...everything is Hayward (single speed). So all I need is a good strategy to help me handle the pressure changes with confidence, like you said mady. Since I really don't know what pics to take, I took pictures of everything. Note that I have a sand filter. With that said, can you help me with these pictures attached. How would I handle my pressure changes with confidence? I'm not sure if I have only one valve to reduce intake right before your pump (which I think I do but not sure). I can't tell if I have the option for controlling the return (I think I can move the handle to skimmer or main drain - I think that's how I can control it. Again not sure). Attached are my pictures.

To Mendy,

My understanding is the pvc elbow in the link above will work for you, particularly if you have hayward filter, though I think the threading for in-ground pool returns is pretty standard, so the hayward may not even matter that much. And getting a hose clamp suitable for this scenario should not be hard, especially if you have a home depot or lowe's nearby, just look for stainless steel and get one big enough to accommodate the diameter of the elbow with the bag around it. The only thing left is to get a good strategy together for helping you handle the pressure changes with confidence.

Here is the general picture as I understand it: adding the duda bag to your system will increase pressure by decreasing the flow of water out of your filter back to your pool (this is the return side, post-pump). You can balance this out by decreasing the pace of water coming into the pump by closing off your skimmer or main drain (this is the intake side, pre-pump). Of course the down side is that this reduces the rate at which water moves through your system.

With that general description, every individual circumstance will require some tweaking. I have to do this every time I run my polaris 360. It runs off a standard return jet, and is powered from my 1.5 hp pump that runs the whole system. I have four ball valves on the return side and two on the intake side. To dial in the pressure right and get the polaris running properly, I usually close off two or three of my four return valves, which raises the pressure significantly. Then I also close off the intake valve from my main drain a bit to compensate.

So now we're left with trying to help you figure out your system. Like I said sometime earlier, it looks to me like you have one valve to reduce intake right before your pump. Can you tell if you have any options for controlling the return, or can you take a more detailed shot of the left side of your system so we can help?

 

[madyogi]

So, the pipe that runs to the left from your filter would be the return side. I can't tell from these photos where you would make any adjustments there. Perhaps you could snap another shot of where that pipe (heading to the left off your filter) goes. It looks to me like you adjust the intake using that one valve, but I'm not familiar with that sort of valve, so maybe someone else can help work out how you use that to reduce intake.

 

[RobertScalchi]

Once I cut the ring off the bag, I just slip the hose clamp over the bag first, then insert the bag and clamp over the elbow, at the bag neck I fold the bag twice over itself at the neck. Then slide the clamp down and tighten as tight as possible without cracking the elbow fitting. You will get a little backflow, but it is so little that its unremarkable. You might see a very tiny bit of aeration if you point the bag straight down towards the pool floor. I just make sure that the hose clamp seats against the 3rd stop on the elbow and tighten down as firm as possible so it doesn't blow off

 

[RobertScalchi]

Other than the Hayward selection handle. Is there any type of ball check valve or secondary shutoff valve before the pump or after or in the middle of the return circuit? Or is it all straight PVC pipe with just couplings and connectors?

You shouldn't get too much back pressure when the bag is clean. It should only be about 1 psi above normal clean operating pressure. Again the bag basically filtrates as effectively as DE at 5 micron. When it loads up heavy with fine debris, is when you were going to get more back pressure. So depending on the severity of your pool, just check the pressure every hour initially, and try to get an idea of how fast the bag is loading up. Once you are 10 psi above normal clean operating pressure, remove the bag and clean it then reattach it.

Wash, rinse, repeat until satisfied.

You will eventually get longer run times on the bag because you are effectively filtrating everything out of the pool.

 

[Mendy48]

I believe its all straight PVC pipe with just couplings and connectors. The only thing I mess with is the valve for the skimmer (S) and the main drain (MD). I circled it for you ... to the lower right side of the picture. I leave everything else alone...only if I want to vacuum to waste or backwash and rinse.

The big box to the Lower left of the picture is just the pool heater.

Other than the Hayward selection handle. Is there any type of ball check valve or secondary shutoff valve before the pump or after or in the middle of the return circuit? Or is it all straight PVC pipe with just couplings and connectors?

You shouldn't get too much back pressure when the bag is clean. It should only be about 1 psi above normal clean operating pressure. Again the back basically filtrates as effectively as DE at 5 micron. When it loads up heavy with fine debris, is when you were going to get more back pressure. So depending on the severity of your pool, just check the pressure every hour initially, and try to get an idea of how fast the bag is loading up. Once you are 10 psi above normal clean operating pressure, remove the bag and clean it then reattach it.

Wash, rinse, repeat until satisfied.

You will eventually get longer run times on the bag because you are effectively filtrating everything out of the pool.

 

[madyogi]

What's the big box on the left, just out of curiosity?

 

[funandsun]

That's the Heater

What's the big box on the left, just out of curiosity?

 

[RobertScalchi]

Yeah I have seen the same exact setup on a friend's pool before, only I think that they had a Hayward Super Flow 2 pump. For the last several years I've been trying to convince her to come over to the TFP methods, but she can't be bothered with taking 30 minutes out of her life for me to explain proper water chemistry to her, and has already gone through the expense of replacing her pool liner as of last year as a result of running extremely high chlorine levels for years by just throwing the trichlor Pucks in the skimmer basket as many as six at a time, and hiring someone to come in and maintain her pool lol..., she also installed a SWCG as of last year. My wife and I and our friends stay at her house up to 3 times a year, and when we stay there for the extended weekends I'm usually in charge of maintaining the pool. Funny.... 10 years ago I didn't know a single thing about pools and I was still the one attempting to try and figure her pool out.

I honestly wouldn't worry about the throttling. To go to the trouble of installing two ball check valves, glue and seal the pipes and valves, test for leaks, etc, just to throttle water flow for week or so to clear the pool utilizing slower filtration. Its probably not worth it.

Whether the slower filtration method works, it's really only in theory as far as I know. I can't substantiate scientific evidence-based proof for it.

I can only say I've tried it, and my reasons for trying just to even out pressure for longer pump time run at slower rates, just to see if it works because my pump motor is only one speed. Those are the trade-offs of slower filtration. It takes much longer to get things clearer. But slower filtration is only purposeful when you have efficient micron mediums like cartridge or DE to do it. Again this can all be variables depending on the power of your pump and setup. Some pumps are underpowered for the size gallons of pools, some pumps are overpowered for the size gallons of the pool. Pumps are typically depicted in GPH, or GPM, they have flow rates and it is also measured in square footage as well.

Once you are clear and water is balanced, that much amount of overkill filtration is no longer necessary.

I only do it because I have an above ground pool that's not that big, it's only 7200 gallons and my pump and filtration including flow rate is a little overkill. 1.5 hp Hayward Matrix Flow because I have a lot of debris falling into the pool cause I'm next to the woods, and the pool and my pump came with the house.

Try using the bags and see if it suits your purpose, and kindly let us know the results.

 

[RobertScalchi]

If you really want to attempt it just for experimental reasons you can probably install the valves just before the pump and just after it as it looks like you have a good amount of straight pipe there to work with to make a cut and install the valves.

But again I really don't see it being that necessary even though I mentioned it earlier in this post.

Just out of curiousity, what HP is your pump? 1hp or 1.5? Nevermind I saw the pictures. 1hp.