Dream Set up

[Esz]

As an avid stalker of TFP and a 10 year owner of a gunite pool , I think it’s time to upgrade my equipment. Looking to get a new DE filter, pump, automatic controller, automatic liquid chlorine dispenser, automatic water refill. I have a 23x50 gunite with a 3.5-8.5 ft deep. I believe it’s about 50,000 gallons. Was wondering if anyone has any suggestions in which equipment I should purchase?
Thanks
Elliot

 

[Jimrahbe]

Elliot,

Welcome (officially) to TFP... a great place to find the answers to all your pool upgrade questions...

You need to slow down!!! One post in two years!!! At that rate, it will be impossible for me to keep up...

You will find that most people "love" and recommend what they have. I am no different. I have three pools that all have Pentair IntelliFlo pumps, EasyTouch Automation Systems and Salt systems. I highly recommend Pentair equipment. I suspect that all the other brands are "almost" as good..

What is it that you expect the "automatic controller" to do?

I have become a fan of the Cartridge filter, but we have a number of people here that have the Quad 100 DE filter and love it.

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[tim5055]

Welcome to TFP!!

Were it me, and based on an unlimited budget I would be looking at SWCG instead. I went with a Stenner pump because I knew we would only be in the house for a couple of years and that was teh most economical way to go.

I would also recommend a sand filter. IMHO they are a little easier to maintain and if you need that little extra filtering you can add DE to the sand filter.

While auto refills can be nice and many folks here have them they can mask leaks. If I had one I personally would leave it turned off unless I was traveling and leaving the pool unattended for a period of time.

 

[Esz]

Elliot,

Welcome (officially) to TFP... a great place to find the answers to all your pool upgrade questions...

You need to slow down!!! One post in two years!!! At that rate, it will be impossible for me to keep up...

You will find that most people "love" and recommend what they have. I am no different. I have three pools that all have Pentair IntelliFlo pumps, EasyTouch Automation Systems and Salt systems. I highly recommend Pentair equipment. I suspect that all the other brands are "almost" as good..

What is it that you expect the "automatic controller" to do?

I have become a fan of the Cartridge filter, but we have a number of people here that have the Quad 100 DE filter and love it.

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

Thanks for the response, I’m looking to be able to run the pool off my Iphone, set the times for running the pumps. Turn on the lights, hopefully can show the chlorine levels. Was wondering who makes the largest filter as I have about 50k gallons. Thanks

 

[Esz]

Welcome to TFP!!

Were it me, and based on an unlimited budget I would be looking at SWCG instead. I went with a Stenner pump because I knew we would only be in the house for a couple of years and that was teh most economical way to go.

I would also recommend a sand filter. IMHO they are a little easier to maintain and if you need that little extra filtering you can add DE to the sand filter.

While auto refills can be nice and many folks here have them they can mask leaks. If I had one I personally would leave it turned off unless I was traveling and leaving the pool unattended for a period of time.

Thanks, I am staying away from swcg as chlorine seems to sanitize better, besides I don’t like the salt taste in the water. The reason I use DE is that it filters more then sand. Please corrected if I am mistaken. Thanks for your reply
Elliot

 

[Demegrad9]

on the SWCG vs Liquid Chlorine question, it's the same. As is said so many times here, Chlorine=Chlorine=Chlorine. Doesn't matter how it's produced, liquid chlorine (i.e. bleach) is made in the factory with a salt water brine. Buying and using a SWCG is just transferring this process to your pool directly. Both are fine ways to sanitize your pool and do it just as well as the other.

DE filters are finer than sand filters, BUT as tim was suggesting, you can always add some DE to a sand filter and get that extra fine filtration whenever you wish.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Elliot,

You do realize the a saltwater pool is a chlorine pool... Since it is the exact same chlorine, one can't sanitize better than the other... Also... if you can taste the salt... something is wrong... That said, with a 50K pool you would be hard pressed to get a SWCG that would work well in your pool...

Here is a little window into what an automation system can do...

1. Automation will help you with pool maintenance, but it will not replace the need for you to test your water, understand what you are looking at, and then making sure your water is balanced. (Another reason you need the accuracy of the TF100 test kit.)

2. The main downside to automation is cost. So before going too far down this path, you might ask your PB what it's going to cost. That said, the best time to install automation is when the pool is being built, because all the connections to the system can be made without having to figure out how you are to get power across 50' of new deck. Also, the additional cost, when compared to the cost of the pool, will be miniscule.

3. Automation systems work best when the same brand is used because then the pieces can "talk" to together. So, in your case I would recommend the EasyTouch 4 (or 8) that has a built in power supply for the SWG and generally comes with the SWG and two valves. ScreenLogic2 is an absolute requirement if you want to be able to control things from your PC or Phone.

Here is a list of what I think the advantages are:

1. Appearance. Instead of having a bunch of different boxes hanging on your wall you have one, professional looking enclosure.

2. Circuit Breaker Panel. The bottom half of the enclosure is a circuit-breaker panel where the breakers for your pool equipment (Pumps, Heater, etc.) are located. This panel is also an excellent place to add surge protector, which is an absolute must if you have the Intelliflo pump. Even if you do not get the automation, make sure your PB includes a surge protector for the pump.

3. SWG Control. Without automation, your SWG will have to have a timer, synced to the pump timer so that it does not run when the pump is off. This function is built into the EasyTouch.

4. Spa mode and SWG output. Normally all the water flows through the SWG, so when in the Spa mode, the EasyTouch reduces the amount of chlorine the SWG produces, so that the Spa users are not subjected to high levels of chlorine.

5. Pool Lighting. The EasyTouch allows you to control your pool lighting from your PC and/or from a schedule. This is another reason to add the EasyTouch now. Once your pool light is wired to switches inside your house, it might be very difficult to get the wiring to any automation system.

6. Control of Spill-over and bubblers. Right now I'm sure you are thinking I want that spillover running 24-hours a day because it is so beautiful.. Well, after a few weeks of having your pH go through the roof, you'll appreciate the ability to only turn it on, when you want it on. The same with the bubblers. With the Easytouch, you can program them to run on a schedule for a few minutes a day to keep the everything properly chlorinated or when you want to "show off" to your guests..

7. Relay Control. The EasyTouch 4 has four (really three) relays that can be used to control other things, such as landscape lights. (The EasyTouch has 8 (really 7) relays.

8. Built in Valve controls. The EasyTouch has the ability to control 4 valves. Two work for switching between the Pool and Spa modes, while two others can be programmed to do whatever you might want, like bubbler control. I would note that a lot of bubblers are controlled by manual valves that cannot be automated. You need to be sure to tell your PB that you want Jandy style valves for your bubbler control.

9. Heater Control. The EasyTouch can control your heater.. So, you can be inside and tell your PC what temperature you want the Spa to be and it will tell you when it is ready.

10. ScreenLogic. ScreenLogic allows you to program the EasyTouch with various schedules. It lets you see most all of the inputs and output to the EasyTouch and lets you decide what you want on/off and in the case of your SWG, lets you adjust the % of output on the fly.

11. Pool pump speed... The EasyTouch can be programmed to adjust your pumps speed. So when running just the pool, it can run slow, but when running your waterfall, it will automatically increase the speed to make your waterfall or other water features look exactly how you want them to look.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[tim5055]

Thanks, I am staying away from swcg as chlorine seems to sanitize better, besides I don’t like the salt taste in the water. The reason I use DE is that it filters more then sand. Please corrected if I am mistaken. Thanks for your reply
Elliot

Sorry, but you are mistaken.

A SWCG (salt water chlorine generator, note the word chlorine in the name) is in effect a small chlorine plant in the pool plumbing. It creates the same chlorine you get from a bottle of liquid chlorine thru a chemical process. Inside the SWCG electricity and the metal plates turn the salt into chlorine and that chlorine as it is used up in teh pool is turned back into salt. It's a loop, salt to chlorine, chlorine to salt.

As to the taste, that is a very personal matter. But, how many SWCG pools have you been in? If you tasted the salt in one I'm going to bet the pool owner was one of those folks who though if a little salt works well, more is better. If you think about it, the ocean salt can be measured at about 35,000ppm while a SWCG pool is about 3,500. The average swimming pool that is chlorinated by liquid easily gets to about 1,000-1,500ppm salt because liquid chlorine adds salt to the water.

Now, on to the filter. First, I won't fight anyone over their choice of filter. You are correct, a DE filter filters much smaller particles than a sand filter. But, we find that in a pool maintained using our "system" particles that small are seldom present in the water. Should you need to filter to that level you can follow these instructions to use DE in a sand filter - Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter

DE powder is an inhalation hazard and has been classified as a carcinogen by the State of California (OK, I admit almost everything has been classified that way in California) and following these trends some jurisdictions are enacting ordinances regarding backwash water from DE filters. Thousands (millions?) of people use them and they have their proponents. I just feel the possible risks and need to disassemble them at times to clean them are issues I don't want to deal with.

- - - Updated - - -

That said, with a 50K pool you would be hard pressed to get a SWCG that would work well in your pool...

But, following that thought a 50,000 gallon pool is going to require massive amounts of liquid chlorine.

 

[Esz]

Sorry, but you are mistaken.

A SWCG (salt water chlorine generator, note the word chlorine in the name) is in effect a small chlorine plant in the pool plumbing. It creates the same chlorine you get from a bottle of liquid chlorine thru a chemical process. Inside the SWCG electricity and the metal plates turn the salt into chlorine and that chlorine as it is used up in teh pool is turned back into salt. It's a loop, salt to chlorine, chlorine to salt.

As to the taste, that is a very personal matter. But, how many SWCG pools have you been in? If you tasted the salt in one I'm going to bet the pool owner was one of those folks who though if a little salt works well, more is better. If you think about it, the ocean salt can be measured at about 35,000ppm while a SWCG pool is about 3,500. The average swimming pool that is chlorinated by liquid easily gets to about 1,000-1,500ppm salt because liquid chlorine adds salt to the water.

Now, on to the filter. First, I won't fight anyone over their choice of filter. You are correct, a DE filter filters much smaller particles than a sand filter. But, we find that in a pool maintained using our "system" particles that small are seldom present in the water. Should you need to filter to that level you can follow these instructions to use DE in a sand filter - Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter

DE powder is an inhalation hazard and has been classified as a carcinogen by the State of California (OK, I admit almost everything has been classified that way in California) and following these trends some jurisdictions are enacting ordinances regarding backwash water from DE filters. Thousands (millions?) of people use them and they have their proponents. I just feel the possible risks and need to disassemble them at times to clean them are issues I don't want to deal with.

- - - Updated - - -

But, following that thought a 50,000 gallon pool is going to require massive amounts of liquid chlorine.

Thanks, you are correct that it does take a lot of liquid chlorine, I go thru 12-15 cases 4 bottles per case a season. My pool has heavy use every day. I forgot to mention that I have an automatic cover which a Swcg would probably shorten the life of the cover. I am not sure if there is any swcg that can produce enough colorine for the 50k.
Thanks

 

[tim5055]

I forgot to mention that I have an automatic cover which a Swcg would probably shorten the life of the cover. I am not sure if there is any swcg that can produce enough colorine for the 50k.
Thanks

We have found the comments about SWCG's damaging or shortening the life of pool parts/equipment (including covers) is more urban legend or hype from pool installers who don't like them then the truth. We have tensof thousands of members here who use them and have no issues at all. Again, the only difference between your current pool chlorinated by liquid and a SWCG pool is a couple of thousand PPM of salt. Liquid chlorine adds more salt than people think to the water.

SWCG's are used on pools larger than yours. Manufacturers size them up to 60,000 gallons for residential pools and larger commercial units are available. We always recommend doubling the pool size, so for your pool we would probably say use two 50,000 gallon salt cells.

Now, that is/was really written for the people who will read this thread and not comment. For you, you are happy with a liquid system and to be honest so was I. A Stenner pump is a workhorse for delivering chlorine and parts are readily available to maintain and repair them.