SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on check sensor?

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Just set it up whichever way makes for the least amount of fittings. Saves money and improves efficiency.


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[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Yep, it sure seems the best bet is the input and output go to the middle port on the 3 way valve.. so my first drawing is the only real way i can do this efficiently, along with any bends.. looks like ill have some arranging to do to minimize things.

In that case, something like this isnt best (was basically what i was striving for, but not the best idea it seems):

That graphic is absolutely the best, most simplistic installation you could strive for. Rarely does the schematic match the actual installation. What's wrong with that layout vs your setup?


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[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

That graphic is absolutely the best, most simplistic installation you could strive for. Rarely does the schematic match the actual installation. What's wrong with that layout vs your setup?


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That layout needs to have the inbound or outbound going out of the 3 way valves center position, at least according to Jblizzle and others...
not sure i completely follow.. i thought if the handle (closed part) was facing the words "3 way valve" then it would be correct (in this image which i think is the wrong orientation), i guess not.

edit: i guess the middle port should be thought of as the common port, the port that will always have water going to and from it and i dont think my image below is correct either, since that middle / common one can be "off" when no sun:

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

That layout has the center position used as the bypass around the solar array. Water goes in the bottom and either out the top to the panels, or to the right to go straight back to the pool.


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[jblizzle]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Having the Middleport be the common pipe is ideal as it gives you the best control but it is not required

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Having the Middleport be the common pipe is ideal as it gives you the best control but it is not required

Common being to the middle from the pump, or to the returns? They both would see the same flow. Just curious what you meant.


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[pooldv]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

I don't really understand what the question is but here is how mine is plumbed.

The left pipe goes up to the panels and the right pipe is returning from solar. In the pic right now the solar valve is open and water is going up the pipe to the panels. The handle to the left and the "closed" tab is pointing right closing off the bypass pipe. When solar turns off the handle is pointing down and the "closed" tab is pointing up shutting off the pipe going up and sending water to the right through the bypass pipe and on to the pool.

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

I don't really understand what the question is but here is how mine is plumbed.

The left pipe goes up to the panels and the right pipe is returning from solar. In the pic right now the solar valve is open and water is going up the pipe to the panels. The handle to the left and the "closed" tab is pointing right closing off the bypass pipe. When solar turns off the handle is pointing down and the "closed" tab is pointing up shutting off the pipe going up and sending water to the right through the bypass pipe and on to the pool.

That's how I thought it worked. It's backwards of industrial valves. All our valves at work follow the handle. I'm whittling the wife down for the solar. Hard to swing a grand. Then again, she just dropped $1100 on a sauna that I didn't flinch over. This should be a non issue. As dory says "just keep swimming", or pushing for what you want.


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[jblizzle]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Common being to the middle from the pump, or to the returns? They both would see the same flow. Just curious what you meant.


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Common being the pipe that always has flow, like out of the filter in this application. Or into the pump if you have separate floor and skimmer suction lines. That is ideally connected to the middle port.

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

That's what I figured common was referring to, but common in the case of a valve before a pump, and a valve like the common solar setup seems different as far as which side is common. Are you saying the "common" middle port should be hooked up to the pump side, and then one side goes to the solar and the other side goes to the return? Just checking what the OP was confused about vs what I've seen. Most solar setups have one side of the 3 way hooked up to the "common" line for the pump. The valve then determines if it goes up to the solar panels, or to the right to the returns. An H type setup like pooldv has posted pictures of, or some other setup with extra elbows involved. As far as I can tell, any side can be the "common" side of the valve. You can hook it up however you want. Is that actually the case? Are these valves made with a T shaped valve inside so that any configuration would work?


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[jblizzle]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

What you are saying is only true if your equipment happens me right by the house that you're putting the solar on. My equipment is nowhere near my house is so my 3-way solar valve doesn't divert water up it diverts it sideways and then down into the ground.

 

[jblizzle]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

My concern about the common Port is that if you have the solar setup like in the pictures that you have posted if you don't send all the water one way or the other you could be restricting the flow.

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

This is how I've seen solar set up most often.

This is how it seems you are saying it should be.

Other than one 90 right where the word solar is on the second picture, what's the difference? How can you limit flow with a 3 way valve? Can you shut off flow? Is it not one or the other, or some combination of the two?


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[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

My concern about the common Port is that if you have the solar setup like in the pictures that you have posted if you don't send all the water one way or the other you could be restricting the flow.

I think this means if the auto valve gets stuck on its way to "block" the solar port, this will cause a big issue in a malfunction right? So in the case of that diagram (which is the same as pooldv, is this technically wrong, or do the elbows and tees tied in change it somehow), the common isnt taking the right flow, not the filter per say? But I guess as long as those ports dont get obstructed then there is no issue (i'm going to try to make the main port the filter flow, which would always be "open"), ill have a few right angles to do it, but it should be ok.

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This is how I've seen solar set up most often.
This is how it seems you are saying it should be.

Other than one 90 right where the word solar is on the second picture, what's the difference? How can you limit flow with a 3 way valve? Can you shut off flow? Is it not one or the other, or some combination of the two?


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This second one looks like the "correct" way yeah.. except my solar line and return line will be slanted 45 to the right to make it to the garage corner and a heck of a 90 on the bottom part of the tee on the return there to come back to my SWG (or i move the swg closer to the pump).. then my filter pump is at a sharp 45 degree to the bottom right or to the right towards the pump ( i guess i need about two 45s and one 90 at least)

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

What you are saying is only true if your equipment happens me right by the house that you're putting the solar on. My equipment is nowhere near my house is so my three way they'll doesn't divert water up it diverts it down into the ground

What do you mean it diverts it to the ground? I'm serious, not being argumentative. I've got a 135 ft run each way from my pad to my house. I'm planning on having all the main valves to control the solar system at my pump. Basically just like the H style layout that pooldv has, just laid flat vs being vertical. Then at the house I'll have an additional set of isolation valves and drain valves to aid in winterizing the panels and underground lines. Basically the 3 way I put by the pad will either run water all the way to the panels and back, or it will completely bypass the entire run and go straight to the swg and the returns just like it does now.


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[jblizzle]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Just because that is how you always see it does not make it ideal, IMO. Hardly anything in the pool industry is done what might be for the best, it is done the cheapest and easiest way possible.

The actuator should NEVER be setup to turn such that it closes off the supply flow.

Forget I said anything ... it really does not make that much of a difference. Maybe when you have a valve in your hand and play with it you will see what I mean.

If you had the solar valve pointing straight up the wall like in your top picture of post 93 and you only wanted to send 1/2 the water to the solar, the handle would have to be a roughly 8:30. The diverter inside would be partially obstructing both the path to the solar and the path back to the pool. Is it obstructing more that a fully open pipe? Well you would hope the designer would not allow that, but I am not sure that is the case.

If you put the valve like the lower picture in post 93, to send roughly half the water to the solar and the pool the handle would be pointing straight down (6:00) And the diverter would not be obstructing anything. The port to the solar and the port to the pool would be 100% open. That is my only point. This allows you to have much finer control of where the water goes.

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

I think this means if the auto valve gets stuck on its way to "block" the solar port, this will cause a big issue in a malfunction right? So in the case of that diagram (which is the same as pooldv, is this technically wrong, or do the elbows and tees tied in change it somehow), the common isnt taking the right flow, not the filter per say? But I guess as long as those ports dont get obstructed then there is no issue (i'm going to try to make the main port the filter flow, which would always be "open"), ill have a few right angles to do it, but it should be ok.

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This second one looks like the "correct" way yeah.. except my solar line and return line will be slanted 45 to the right to make it to the garage corner and a heck of a 90 on the bottom part of the tee on the return there to come back to my SWG (or i move the swg closer to the pump).. then my filter pump is at a sharp 45 degree to the bottom right or to the right towards the pump ( i guess i need about two 45s and one 90 at least)

I don't like the second diagram I drew because it adds an extra 90 that there's no need for. I don't see the difference in how the 3 way will operate based on either diagram. I think either will work. I guess it just depends on the actual layout of the land as far as which one works best. I think the first one is better because it eliminates one turn the water would have to take. Having said that, when I lay mine out, even using the "H" layout, I'll have a 90 to go underground, one to level off underground, another 90 turning underground, a 90 coming back up, then a couple fittings going around the eave if I don't drill a hole trough it. So, I'd say the drawings are effectively the same, just different depending on the actual lay of the land. If anyone wants to debate that further than is effective on a forum, pm me, and I'll send you my number so we can really iron this out. I think we're all right, it's just so hard to convey exactly what you're thinking on a forum that it takes this many pages to convey what a 5 minute conversation would've taken care of.


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[jblizzle]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Here is a picture that was from when I was redoing my pad (I don't readily have a current pic).

On the right out of the filter you can kind of see a union I added and then the check valve and then into the middle port of the solar valve (which had no actuator yet).

The path to the solar is now to the right, which then turns down and ties into the pipes you see capped in the ground at the bottom right (they were there from previous owner).

Coming back from the solar went over to the little vertical stub (which is where I also installed the solar return check valve).

And then the Tee to the normal return heading back toward the fence (I left a lot of straight pipe there because I added my flow switch for my SWG along the fence and I added the cell on the run heading back toward the valves.

You can also see in front of the pump where I had the common port entering the pump from the center port and the left side comes from my skimmer and the right side comes from a vacuum port.

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Guys, 1 extra 90 will not make 1 dang bit of difference ...

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Switching topics a tad.. when it comes to check valves.. does it matter whether you use a reducer to go from 2" to 1.5" or not? I have one jandy coming thats the 2-2.5 one.. the 2" pipes go "inside" the jandy holes.. no big deal, i think thats ok (for the return portion over by the garage wall, below the drain tee (or i may put closer to the pool under the deck)..

On the jandy that needs to go behind the 3 way and after the filter, clearly i have to use a reducer on the 3 way to the check valve.. so since my other jandy coming is the 2-2.5 as well.. should i just use 2 to 1.5 reducers on its ends and be done.. or is it "better" to not use reducers and just order the 1.5-2 version and wait a few extra days?


Also.. is there some way to measure the gph/gpm flow to the solar panels once this is done (i read that there may be something for around $45 you can drill into the pipe and add later?)..

all i can see so far is a check valve that has a readout on it (which may or may not add head) and costs a bit more.. around $115 for a "flowvis" brand? If money were no object and this could be used without cause more issues.. i'd probably make both of the check valves this type (i guess the solar return one being flow rate type isnt as useful if you just measure psi and temperature differences to tune).. then i could finally see the real GPM on my pump and the solar.. all for an added cost of around $160 more for both. Knowing me, id end up later having to cut the old ones out and install these, cause i love stats (cant really re-use the old stuff or sell it after glued). Btw, it appears you can get a retro fit "cap" for the jandy 2-2.5" but its $115 alone.

 

[jblizzle]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Get the bigger valves and use reducers when required