South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living - STARTUP PHASE

[grumpiebk]

South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living - STARTUP PHASE

It's been exactly two weeks since our pool was filled. I've noticed the water level has dropped by approx 2" during that time. This equates to ~1/7" each day or an inch a week. We haven't jumped in yet and the only splash-out we've had is from brushing/skimming. Our temps here have been in the high 70s in the day and high 50s/low 60s at night. Water temp has been around 72-75 degrees. There are no signs of leaks anywhere. But this feels like a lot for evaporation. Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kimkats]

We have a link for that! Pool School - Leak Detection

Look in the 4th paragraph for the "bucket test". Tired and true way to make sure it is the pool or evaporation.

Kim

 

[grumpiebk]

We have a link for that! Pool School - Leak Detection

Look in the 4th paragraph for the "bucket test". Tired and true way to make sure it is the pool or evaporation.

Kim

Thanks, Kim. i dont suspect it is a leak...yet. The bucket test seems to be an easy way to rule out evaporation. My question is, would a large pool's evaporation drop the water level by the same amount a small bucket would? Is that the expectation with the test, that the water levels drop from evaporation but remain even between pool and bucket? I was always good at math, but not science. Go figure!

 

[bdavis466]

The two will drop at the same level if evaporation is the culprit. Volume is irrelevant unless there is a temperature difference but that is solved by placing the bucket in the pool for the test.

Your water loss does not sound out of the ordinary.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Evaporation rates can easily be 1/8-1/4" per day, higher if you have lower RH. If your pool water temp is in the mid-70's and the overnight air temperature drops to 50's, then you're going to have a lot of evaporative heat and water loss especially if there is any wind blowing.

Do you have an autofill for the pool? If so, is it turned on? I would try to keep the water level as constant as you can or else you risk developing a "bath tub ring" on your water line tile.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Grumpie,

I would suspect all your loss is from normal evaporation, but here is a picture of a bucket tester for the OCD challenged in case you ever need one...



Jim R.

 

[bdavis466]

Grumpie,

I would suspect all your loss is from normal evaporation, but here is a picture of a bucket tester for the OCD challenged in case you ever need one...

View attachment 57170

Jim R.

Quite the contraption Jim...I see a new product for the TFTestkits store!

 

[grumpiebk]

South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living - STARTUP PHASE

Grumpie,

I would suspect all your loss is from normal evaporation, but here is a picture of a bucket tester for the OCD challenged in case you ever need one...

View attachment 57170

Jim R.

Jim, you've come to know me well!

As for an auto-fill, we only have an equalizer line from the skimmer. If I understand how that works, that's only for much lower levels below the skimmer line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bdavis466]

Building a pool without an autofiller and an overflow is criminal in my opinion. I'll be sending my hitman JimR to Florida to rough up a pool builder or two.

 

[grumpiebk]

Building a pool without an autofiller and an overflow is criminal in my opinion. I'll be sending my hitman JimR to Florida to rough up a pool builder or two.

What is done is done. Unfortunately I've been saying a lot of that lately. Brian, you have a flight and accommodations for my next pool build. If there ever is another...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Building a pool without an autofiller and an overflow is criminal in my opinion. I'll be sending my hitman JimR to Florida to rough up a pool builder or two.

Out here in the dry, desert southwest, yes it is criminal. But we only really need the autofill...rain has NEVER cause my pool to overfill. In humid and rainy FL, I think an overflow drain is more important than an autofill since they get drenching rainstorms all season long. The autofill would be a "nice to have" feature but not a necessity.

Grumpy,

Fill your pool back up with the garden hose. You should not let it drop so much.

 

[bdavis466]

I said the same thing about overflows out here. Several pools around me completely overflowed with the recent rain that we received.

 

[Captain 776]

I agree with Joyfulnoise......above.
I have done the Bucket Test and you can easily have 1/8" to 1/4" inch over night.
The Temperature Difference referred to is called Radiational Cooling, when the water in the pool is warmer than the surrounding ambient air, under those conditions us when you will get the most evaporation.

I have large clay pots with Lotus flowers and fish in them and it is very noticeable when evaporation conditions have been ideal, I have to add to them.

 

[grumpiebk]

I agree with Joyfulnoise......above.
I have done the Bucket Test and you can easily have 1/8" to 1/4" inch over night.
The Temperature Difference referred to is called Radiational Cooling, when the water in the pool is warmer than the surrounding ambient air, under those conditions us when you will get the most evaporation.

I have large clay pots with Lotus flowers and fish in them and it is very noticeable when evaporation conditions have been ideal, I have to add to them.

Makes sense. This is really the only time of the year (a month max) that it gets that cold so it sounds like it shouldn't be a year-round problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[grumpiebk]

South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living - STARTUP PHASE

I can use some help here on this one. It's going to be a long post, so bear with me.

I haven't been posting as much because we haven't finished our landscape and candidly, I've been frustrated with the plaster. The water color never got close to the color we wanted. I took action on this with the owner of the plaster company immediately as it started filling - the Quartz aggregate just didn't look the same as the pool we visited and had pictures of. The pool we visited was a light grayish blue cement base with blue, grey, beige, and black stones. Ours turned out with a whitish base with a lot of blue and zero black. We agreed to let it fill, chemicals settle in, and brush and re-evaluate. Well, it never got close. Ours is a light blue versus the darker teal blue we were going for. When the material arrived the day of plaster, we confirmed we received the correct product. But that product was based on what the PB owner told us the pool we visited used (the homeowners who showed us the pool didn't recall the brand/color and couldn't locate the paperwork). The good thing here is that the plaster company is in my corner and agreed we received something different than the pictures we had, so they brought this up to the PB on my behalf as the subject matter expert. The PB called me yesterday (with the plaster company owner in his office) and informed me that the pool we visited had a different plaster selection on their warranty paperwork than what he had previously told me. Said another way, I didn't get the product that we wanted based on our pool visit. I was rather surprised that he admitted it, but it helped I had the plaster company on my side.

So while we haven't gotten into the battle of who will pay for it (we certainly will not), the PB asked me what I wanted to do and I told him that we want the right product/color. So here are my questions:

- what risks does a replaster introduce? Is it worth it?

- thinking of other middle ground solutions - could we have them retile our waterline and/or step markers or spa to make the design choices work better with the current plaster color? What would that entail from a plaster perspective?

- should we get into a disagreement about covering the cost of the repair, what is my best position here? Unfortunately there is only a very nominal balance remaining ($1500), which is pretty standard here in FL, so I don't have much leverage.

Here are some pics:

Selected plaster

Received plaster (it is even lighter in person than my pics)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JoyfulNoise]

What specifically is in your written contract? What is "in writing" is what will control the situation.

Replacing the tile will require the plaster to be chipped out partially so that's not a good option.

A replaster is going to cost you time and money, but not much else....as long as the plasterer is careful with the chip out and doesn't damage anything.

I suppose accepting what you have is not acceptable?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[grumpiebk]

I suppose accepting what you have is not acceptable?

We didn't select the finish until later in the process, so it is not in our contract. However, all of our correspondence with the PB for our plaster selection has been on email.

We could accept what we have, but all of our design choices were made with a water color in mind. The choices just don't work well together with what we received, hence the reason I asked about other alternatives. Since the marker tile and spa tile are the same, it would be hard to re-tile one without the other. Alternatively, we were thinking of a waterline tile that would act as a good transition between the spa tiles and water color - right now we just have tile that matches our travertine.

Another option is just asking for a refund for the plaster, but I don't see that happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pooldv]

You could spray in a new Aquabright finish over the current plaster.

 

[grumpiebk]

You could spray in a new Aquabright finish over the current plaster.

Maybe Brian can come out to Florida for my build after all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JoyfulNoise]

We didn't select the finish until later in the process, so it is not in our contract. However, all of our correspondence with the PB for our plaster selection has been on email.

We could accept what we have, but all of our design choices were made with a water color in mind. The choices just don't work well together with what we received, hence the reason I asked about other alternatives. Since the marker tile and spa tile are the same, it would be hard to re-tile one without the other. Alternatively, we were thinking of a waterline tile that would act as a good transition between the spa tiles and water color - right now we just have tile that matches our travertine.

Another option is just asking for a refund for the plaster, but I don't see that happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, only a lawyer can give you the best advice but I would at least prepare for some form of cost-sharing here. The plaster applicator did his job so he's not at fault - it's not his job to select colors, just to apply the product as described in his work request. The PB clearly was working from memory on trying to give you the name of the product BUT you all also were relying on him to do that without getting plaster swatches on your own to verify color choice. Unless the color names are specifically written down somewhere with an absolute guarantee and and a signature, it's all basically he-said/she-said. My bet would be that any judge in that situation would take a "King Solomon & the Baby" approach and request you both come in on half the cost to fix it.

Then again, what do I know....the extent of my color pallet consists of the standard Crayola 8-pack of crayons. In my opinion, what you have in your backyard is a nice big bucket of cool water and a place to throw down some plastic lawn furniture....good enough for me :splash:

Good luck, I really do hope it works out in your favor....