Yet another DIY pool controller thread

[Katodude]

Nothing like an impending hurricane to give you time for fun stuff. All the shutters were up and in-laws came to the house so managed to carve out a little time to work on the controller. Cut a piece of plywood the size of the box I plan on mounting it in so I have a template to check all the sizes. Have the pump relay, heater, SWG, Stenner relays all wired. Pump will be 240v and everything else will be set for 120v. Have a 5v power supply, and a 24VAC transformer. 16 relays, 8 for the actuators, and 4 for power, and 2 more for the heater control.

Going to have to change the programming a little since I am thinking I am going to use the Pentair Intellivalves. Which I have successfully tested with relay control. They need continual power which is different than the standard relays.

 

[Katodude]

Well nothing like a rainy Saturday to finish unfinished projects...

Controller is fully built. Going to order an Altelix box for it today and try to install it next weekend.

Right now it will drive power to the pump, heater, chlorinator, and Acid Stenner pump (not purchased yet).
It will do 3 wire control of the heater, but I still like to turn the power on and off to the heater.
It will run 4 valve actuators.

 

[Katodude]

The nice thing about almost finishing a project is doing v2 of it. Well when was shopping for a box I found a decent Altelix vented Din rail box. I figured that would be better than having it all mounted on a wooden board. So I bought a new 24VAC Din rail transformer and pulled out some of the old terminal blocks for din rail blocks.

Some minor rewiring and its done. Now I just need to drill the holes for the power whips (got to figure out what size holes to drill). Mount the box and pull out the old Intermatic timer.

 

[emac0002]

I am also building a DIY pool controller based on the raspberry pi and have a few questions. What is the sequencing like? IE Do you turn the valves first wait a period of time to turn the pump on? Also, what about time to turn spa blower on, heater on?

I feel like a have a good handle on the flows within node red and has been a really fun project using pieces from other builds. The only thing I have left to figure out are the sensors.

 

[Katodude]

Great question. For now I just move the valves with the pump on. I may change that as I see how they respond. Right now my valves move manually fairly easily with the pump on so I think I should be ok with the actuators.

The first thing in any of my flows is to turn the pump on. I then wait a period of time to turn on stuff like the heater, or SWG. I want to make sure that water is flowing before I turn on any other stuff.

I am in almost the same spot as you. I have not done any sensors yet. The first one I need to do is temperature so that I can cycle the heater on and off.

 

[Katodude]

Well it just took getting an electrician over to help with the high voltage stuff and I am done. The box is installed, and working. Still chasing some gremlins down in the programing since the pump was randomly turning off yesterday.

Got two actuators installed, a Hayward and a Pentair Intellivalve. Need to get two more and I am done. Might just get the Pentair since adjusting the cams on the other actuators is annoying.

 

[Katodude]

Gremlins have removed. Controller has worked great for the last few days. Really happy with this project. I probably have about $600 into this thing (not including the actuators). I now have a fully featured pool controller, with Alexa integration and it was fun to build.

Now I just need to up my Node Red skills and start tweaking the UI and capabilities a little more.

Next step is to build another smaller controller to start the firepit.

 

[el duderino]

I have wired up the relays to terminal blocks and tested each relay with an ohm meter to make sure I did not screw up the wiring.

I have all 8 relays wired. I am using one block and the black wires for common. Even number relays wired NO with yellow, odd number relays with red.

For my programming odd number relays will turn the actuators one direction (Spa Mode), and the even will turn the actuators the other way (Pool Mode).

Ordered the 24v AC transformer. And I need to get an actuator (actually 4 of them, but I should test one first).

Anybody have any suggestions on valve actuators or are they pretty much all the same?

View attachment 113751

I realize this is fairly old and you've come a long way since posting this question, but I've come to the conclusion that going with Hayward/Jandy/Pentair actuators is worth the extra investment vs the cheaper Intermatic option. I've replaced all of my originals that lasted many years with the Intermatics, and they fail at a much faster rate. You can even tell by looking that they are not as substantial. I also find them harder to setup, so in the future I will pay the additional $20+/- for the name brand, which I believe pays for itself over the longer life of the actuator. Not to mention, a failing actuator can cause serious issues in my situation.

I do like your idea of using 2 relays per valve. I've thought about that too. It also gives you the ability to do some interesting "in between" modes allowing water to flow at differing levels, which would be nice for my system and during freeze control.

 

[Katodude]

So this is actually an important topic. I have 4 actuators. I bought one Hayward and three Intellivalves. Pluses and minus of each.

The Hayward actuator seems pretty solid and well built. It is a traditional actuator uses microswitches on the inside that are hit by cams to force a hard stop at either end. So in theory just two positions. However, if you want to get froggy with it you can send time how much you want to run the actuator and have it stop just about anywhere before it hits one of the microswitches. You will just need to get out there with a stop watch measure the time it takes to get from one end position to your interim point and use that in your program.

The Intellivalve is a sealed system. There are no cams that you manually adjust. You set the two end point positions by the panel on top of the actuator. It is easier to set than manually working the cams, but that is more of a personal preference. However, because they are electronically controlled they constantly need power which means my previous timing hack will not work with them. (It actually might but I would not recommend it). The Intellivalve also comes with a RS-485 connector, which at some point in the future you will just be able to send it a signal to tell it where to stop. We are waiting for this functionality to be enabled in the IntelliCenter so that we can sniff it to learn what signal is required.

Now the reason that I use two relays to control my valves is that I have to power each side of the actuator for the direction I want it to go in. I think the correct term is my relay hats are single throw so I need two for each actuator.

 

[Katodude]

Well time for an update. I had my Intelliflo installed yesterday, so upgraded the controller to speak RS-485 to it buy installing the Nodejs-poolController software. I had the installer plump in a T reducer at the same time and I now have a thermometer right after the pump to measure pool and spa temp. Running the older 5.3 version while I try to play with 6.0 on my dev pi. With a lot of help from @cmc0619 I was able to integrate it into my node-red system.

Some very quick changes on some nodes, instead of turning on a relay to turn on the pump I send a signal to the pump to run at a certain speed. The mods were surprisingly easy and fast to do. Again with @cmc0619 help I have a little dashboard that tells me what speed the pump is running at and how many watts it is drawing. Going to spend the next few days messing with the speeds to see what works best for the spa (I think 2400 rpm) and regular pool operation (right now 1750 but will probably lower it a touch).

Need to right some logic into the node-red that will check that the pump is running before turning on the SWG or the heater.

All in all really pleased with the pump so far and how the controller is handling it. Thinking about fancying up the UI but simple might actually be better since it presents really well on a cell phone which is how both the wife and use it the most.

 

[jonpcar]

Kato, nice! Love to see these updates and the progress. As i started implementing my Stenner pump relays, wiring, etc., I realized that I better clean up everything for my “final” hardware implementation...especially wiring. I have so many wires from the sensors and now all the control outputs I am putting in.

Back to the actuators on a couple previous posts prior to your last. I reworked my Goldline/Hayward valve actuators yesterday to replace those “cheap” position switches I had put in for position monitoring of the valves. I replaced them with OEM versions of those switches (the same micro switches that are already in there. As a reminder, I was able to double stack those extra switches (to add monitoring) on top of the existing “cam stop” switches. I will try to post a couple pictures later today.

Like you, I will control both actuators with two relays so that they can be “set” to intermediate positions. I really only need one of my two valves to do that but I figured what the heck. In my case, I will be using a PSI level to position an actuator to an intermediate position. it will be interesting to see if I will be able to get it to do exactly what I want with this method. That’s still a bit away.
Anyway, Congrats! And @cmc0619, it’s great to have you on these boards helping with these projects and supplying a wealth of new ideas.

 

[Katodude]

Well Jon you got me all excited about levels of redundancy.

What I plan on adding today is to query the pump and see if it is running at least 1400 rpm. If I get a result from the pump I will turn on the SWG or the heater whichever is appropriate. Just a double check.

When I really want to get crazy I will splice a section off the flow switch for the SWG generator and test for that as well before turning on the heater.

Now I am a little angry with myself for not pumping in another T to add a MA Stenner. I wired everything up in the controller but just did not pull the trigger. I guess I have to add MA the old fashioned way for now.

 

[cmc0619]

Now I am a little angry with myself for not pumping in another T to add a MA Stenner. I wired everything up in the controller but just did not pull the trigger. I guess I have to add MA the old fashioned way for now.

I ran across this nugget last night that I'd never thought of trying. @AllenA is tapping the PVC and putting threads in it. Might be a viable alternative to add an injection port without adding a T.

 

[jonpcar]

I ran across this nugget last night that I'd never thought of trying. @AllenA is tapping the PVC and putting threads in it. Might be a viable alternative to add an injection port without adding a T.

Apparently lots of people have done this...I personally don’t like it as I worry (probably too much...and absolutely NO data to support it) about leaks...especially if I accidentally “bump/jar” the injection valve...I have gotten a LOT clumsier as I have aged, haha. If you use that method, I would make sure to tap into the thicker parts of the fitting, not into the pipe itself, as recommended by some who have done this.

 

[Katodude]

I am with you Jon, that just bugs me (maybe for no good reason).

However, I just read on another thread here about using one of these.

Spears 467E-SR Series PVC Clamp-On Saddle with EPDM O-Ring, Zink Bolt, Stainless Steel Reinforced Outlet, Schedule 40, White, 2" IPS OD x 1/2" NPT Female: Industrial Pipe Fittings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Spears 467E-SR Series PVC Clamp-On Saddle with EPDM O-Ring, Zink Bolt, Stainless Steel Reinforced Outlet, Schedule 40, White, 2" IPS OD x 1/2" NPT Female: Industrial Pipe Fittings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

smile.amazon.com

 

[jonpcar]

I am with you Jon, that just bugs me (maybe for no good reason).

However, I just read on another thread here about using one of these.

Spears 467E-SR Series PVC Clamp-On Saddle with EPDM O-Ring, Zink Bolt, Stainless Steel Reinforced Outlet, Schedule 40, White, 2" IPS OD x 1/2" NPT Female: Industrial Pipe Fittings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Spears 467E-SR Series PVC Clamp-On Saddle with EPDM O-Ring, Zink Bolt, Stainless Steel Reinforced Outlet, Schedule 40, White, 2" IPS OD x 1/2" NPT Female: Industrial Pipe Fittings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

smile.amazon.com

Kato, a couple times in the past when I have added an injector or PSI valve, I have reworked my pipes to splice in a tee...that takes me pretty much a whole day plodding away at it with trips to Home Depot, etc. Much easier (and probably more “safe”) is to use one of those industrial saddle clamps. That is what I intend do in the future.

 

[AllenA]

Hey guys,
So for the Econ setup, I threaded into a coupling so it got both the pipe and coupling threaded for thickness. With the teflon tape, it at least feels very solid.

This video shows that is also done on a commercial level so I felt confident about it and would also do it for the switch the same way. Of course their pipe is much thicker and should even be more solid:

How to install a feed pump on a swimming pool

This article walks you through how to install a pool chemical feed pump. The video shows each step of the feed pump installation process. The ideal delivery system for Orenda chemicals (like enzymes)

blog.orendatech.com

I would add however that I was quite stressed out while doing cause if it did not work out, you have to replumb and if you do it in a spot that is not easy to replumb, that's a lot of work. So care must be taken.
Allen

 

[WannaPool]

This is a great thread, and now I am motivated to pursue something similar!

My setup is a little different- I have a spillover spa, with 2 pumps- one for spa, and one for pool. When I want to heat the SPA, and the POOL pump is ON, I need to change the return to POOL only (not return to SPA/POOL, which is the "normal" valve location which causes the spillover). This is currently done manually. With the POOL pump OFF, there is no need to change the valve position, as the SPA pump just recycles the SPA water. I also want to be able to turn the Heater on or off (Hayward H400). I also have two lights - a Pentair Spectrum Amerlite in the main pool and a second light in spa, but they are wired to the same switch (in the house). Wouldn't mind controlling that as well!
.... and mentioning scope creep.... I also have a Goldline controller and two temperature sensors (air and water) to control flow to solar panels.
..... and then there is the salt system... but that I pay a pool company to deal with! (perhaps I should so my own chemicals... but that is for another thread )

I may need to pick your brain at a later date for Heater control advice!

 

[Katodude]

Come over to the dark side. Its nice, and we have cookies (I think I promised those to someone else).

Sounds like everything you want to do is very doable. We are happy to help. Ask questions and start a build thread where we can help and contribute ideas.

 

[WannaPool]

Kato, from your Ui interface photos, it looks like you cracked the code on controlling your heater temp? My plan was to have two set points (noted as spa and pool on the heater) - set one to 101, and the other to 97, and have one ode-red flow for high heat, one for low heat, and use the 3 wire method. But I would rather be able to set it from UI.