Would I benefit from a bigger pump?

[Desmond.TFP]

My pool is 27,000 gallons, equipment pad is 5+ feet above water level, one Jandy check-valve just before the pump inlet that is supposed to hold the water after the pump shuts off. I lose prime regularly, sometimes it picks up on its own within 1-2 minutes, sometimes not. The whole setup has never works reliably for over 10 years. I know there are multiple ways I could try and improve things (and I have a separate post about tracking down the source of bubbles in the check-valve), but have a specific question about the pool pump.

My pump is a 2HP Jandy single speed. Would a bigger pump recover prime more reliably and quickly? Would it work better even if, say, a small air leak has developed somewhere on the suction side, such as the check valve, causing all suction-side water to drop back to the pool?

How big would be too big for the pump? I don't mind paying extra for a new pump if it will recover lost prime better.

Thank you !!

 

[Desmond.TFP]

I have a check valve just before my pump inlet, because my equipment pad is 5+ feet above pool water level. When my pool is running I see a nonstop stream of bubbles in the check valve, video linked below:

The pump strainer basket is in churn with air bubbles at the top that never go away, presumably replenished nonstop from what's coming through the check-valve.

Is there a way to track the source of those bubbles? I just replaced the valve flapper with an (expensive!) OEM part from Jandy and it did not change anything. I'm wondering if the check-valve body itself has gone bad, perhaps from a pool tech forcing a screw in off-thread or from a recent freeze. Can I put some shaving foam around the valve and expect to see something? I tried soap bubbles previously and it was very hard to tell.

Thanks!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Des,

We need to see a bigger pic of your plumbing. What, if anything, is between your check valve and the pool??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Des,

In my mind, running a 2 HP Single speed pump is insane, unless you only run an hour a day.

I have a 3 HP IntelliFlo that I run 24/7 at a low RPM for less than $20 a month.

That said, your problem has nothing to do with your pump size. Something else is the issue.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[duraleigh]

A bigger pic is helpful. Pretty sure you have a suction side leak. There is an article about it in Pool School and that may help.

 

[Desmond.TFP]

Here's a pic of the suction-side plumbing. The check valve is hidden behind the fat horizontal pipe. All those faceplates leave plenty of opportunity for air leak I suppose :-(( With the pump off, I've tried shutting off all intake valves and there is still very slow bubble activity in the check valve. I was really hoping that throwing a bigger pump at this would solve the problem by recovering lost prime quick enough.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Des,

Have your already changed all the O-Rings on the four input valves?

If not, that would be the first place to look.

When you turn your pump off, the pump basket should stay full?? It should do that without a check valve, and for sure do it with a check valve.

Is that as big as the bubble under your pump lid gets?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Desmond.TFP]

Yes, I changed those O-rings a few months ago. The pump basket does not stay full with the pump off, how quickly it drops off varies. Bubble remains about that big when I see bubbles in the valve, it has shrunk to zero in the past after some repairs but does not stay there.

 

[Desmond.TFP]

Here is the full setup. My signature has the specifics.
Would a 24x7 setup basically eliminate most of my repeated problems? Do some people deal with elevated equipment pads that way? If so, what would I need to change in my setup to do this? e.g. I don't think 60sf DE filter will be happy with a low-speed pump.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I don't think 60sf DE filter will be happy with a low-speed pump.

Des,

Why would you think that?

I hate DE filters, but have two of them at rent houses.. They both have 3 HP IntelliFlo pumps that run at 1200 RPM, most of time.

As far as I can tell, the DE filters don't care what speed I am running. One of them is a 60 and the other a 48 Sq, Ft. filters.

I still think you have an issue, but running 24/7 would mean the pump would never have to prime, except if you shut it off for maintenance.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Desmond.TFP]

Des,

Why would you think that?

Cough, ChatGPT, cough

I hate DE filters, but have two of them at rent houses.. They both have 3 HP IntelliFlo pumps that run at 1200 RPM, most of time.

As far as I can tell, the DE filters don't care what speed I am running. One of them is a 60 and the other a 48 Sq, Ft. filters.

That's great to know. Would the 1200 RPM suffice to re-coat the DE as well? Do pumps like the IntelliFlo need special controller electonics? I have iAqualink 2.0, I think, and never had a variable speed pump on it.

Does the pump sense when it is just starting up (e.g. after a maintenance stop, specially if there has been some loss of prime) and use a high speed?

 

[duraleigh]

To fix it correctly, you need to find that air leak. It is somewhere in that visible pipe on the suction side, including the valves.

Running 24/7 would likely work but it's a bandaid.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Would the 1200 RPM suffice to re-coat the DE as well?

Des,

I no longer backwash my DE filters.. I just open them up and clean them about every 6 months.. I can tell you that my filter grids are totally coated with DE when I open the filters.

Running at 1200 RPM, is fast enough to skim well and it also turns on my SWCG. I can run this slow as I do not have a heater. If I had a heater, I'd have to run 1500 to 1800 RPM to get the flow needed to turn on the SWCG.

I agree with Dave on finding the priming issue, but the point about having a VS pump applies even if you did not have an air leak.

How many hours a day do you run that 2 HP pump now??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Desmond.TFP]

I agree with Dave on finding the priming issue, but the point about having a VS pump applies even if you did not have an air leak.

Just to double check, after I fix the leak, you'd recommend going to a 3hp VS and 24x7 just to reduce future problems, right?

How many hours a day do you run that 2 HP pump now??

8 hours total. I split that into 4 sessions of 2 hours each across the 24 hours, in an attempt to reduce the amount of prime lost between restarts.

Thank you, all, so much for the help!!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Des,

I have three pools and they all have 3 HP IntelliFlo pumps running 24/7, mostly at 1200 RPM. I do it because I have a SWCG and like making a little chlorine all the time, I also like skimming all the time, and to be honest, I like the look of my pool when the water is moving. I have been doing this for about 10 years and love it. The pumps all seems to work today just as well as they did when initially installed. So quiet, that when I first installed them, I actually had to touch them just to make sure they were still running..

In your case it should reduce your pool related electrical bill by about 75%.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Desmond.TFP]

Got the leaks fixed, thanks you all! One at the check valve itself, one at the leftmost diverter. Ran a hose of water over all joints and when I got to these 2, the bubbles decreased as water was sucked in instead of air.

I have 2 check-valves on my returns that don't make sense to me (pic below). Both are oriented to keep water from the pool from coming up the return to the pump. But my pump is 5' above the pool. What purpose could they be serving?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Des,

Both of those check valves are there to prevent water from a raised spa, from draining back into the pool when the pump is off.

The line of the left is your spa jets line. The line in the middle, with the valve at the bottom, is what sends spillover water to your spa when in the Pool mode.

The line on the right is your pool return line and I can't think of any reason why that valve is not wide open???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Desmond.TFP]

Thank you, Jim. I also turned the pool return line to fully open.