Working through beginner issues. Advice Please!

[gramboda]

Hey Gang, Just wanted to get a second set of eyes on my first TF-100 test. Prior, I have used strips and the pool store both of which I have learned are useless.

Above Ground Vinyl Liner Pool - 27' round, 4' deep = ~17000 gallons
Manual chlorine. Prior, I have used pucks and shock both of which I have learned here can cause CYA issues. I am now stocked with liquid chlorine ;-)

Today's results:
FC - 4.0
CC - .5
PH - 7.5
TA - 210
CH - 275
CYA - 90

My interpretation is that I have several issues. Please correct me if I am wrong.
For my CYA, my FC should be up around 7-12? Add liquid chlorine?
CC is a little high. What to do here?
TA is really high! The Pool Math app says to add acid but it doesnt say what kind or how much.
I am getting mixed messages on the CYA. The pool store said up to 200 is fine. I doubt that is true but everything I have read on Pool School says really low like 30 or 40. Then, I have seen some people post here saying they run pretty consistently at 100. I am in WI and I am able to drain part of the pool if I have to but I would rather not go through the hassle. Also, I saw there is a product called Bio-Active but I dont see anything about it here. Is it legit?

Thanks in advance. I tried to provide all the necessary info and I've read a lot of the articles on the site. Just dont want to screw things up worse than they are! ;-)

 

[Newdude]

Hey Gang, Just wanted to get a second set of eyes on my first TF-100 test. Prior, I have used strips and the pool store both of which I have learned are useless

^^^^^^^^^. This. Soooooo much this. And Welcome !!!

Manual chlorine. Prior, I have used pucks and shock both of which I have learned here can cause CYA issues. I am now stocked with liquid chlorine

^^^^^^^ Even MORE this.

For my CYA, my FC should be up around 7-12? Add liquid chlorine?

Maintain a FC based on the FC/CYA Levels

90 is high and will need a lot of chlorine to reach/maintain the target. You’ll really want to drain/exchange 2/3 to get back to 30.

The pool store said up to 200 is fine. I doubt that is true but everything I have read on Pool School says really low like 30 or 40

^^^^^. This again.

TA is really high! The Pool Math app says to add acid but it doesnt say what kind or how much

It is, and MA does the trick. Lower your PH to 7.2 and run the jets to bring it back up. Lower it again (a day or 2 probably). Each cycle lowers TA by about 10. It takes time so no worry about a rush. But. If you are gonna replace 2/3 of your water it will probably fix itself. Or at least be better depending on your fill water.

Also, I saw there is a product called Bio-Active but I dont see anything about it here. Is it legit?

It is legit on paper. It does not have the real world results unfortunately and maybe works for 1 or 2 out of 10.

 

[cowboycasey]

Welcome to TFP

CYA of 90 is a little high if you have a Salt water generator, if not it is really high.. the most you should have if 40 or 50 for your area... 30 to 40 would be better... With that said you can let it go down on its own and by next year this time it should be about 30 to 50...

So.. With a CYA of 90 7 FC is your cliff.. You never want to drive off a cliff or get close to the cliff... You want to be above 10 FC and target 12 to 13 FC to keep you off the cliff...

Now I will tell you the problem.. With FC above 10 you can no longer test PH as it needs to be below 10 FC to get a good PH test...

If you target 12 FC and your FC level drops to 9 FC you can test PH and add chlorine back to 12...

With all that said it would be better to drain down to 40 CYA and go from there

 

[gramboda]

Thanks for your helpful replies. Draining and refill it is!

Question: I am going out of town tomorrow through next Wed so I dont have time to drain and refill before next week. Should I add the 1.75g of liquid chlorine the app recommends to keep myself safe while away?

 

[Newdude]

Some is always better than none. It won’t last the whole time as a regular in range value so raise it to SLAM level and that should buy you a few days when you leave.

 

[cowboycasey]

SKAM level it is, 35 FC

 

[Newdude]

SKAM level it is

Skam level is whatever Leslies says.

 

[cowboycasey]

K and L is so close and fast typing is not my forte I am leaving it like that because how funny...

 

[gramboda]

NE Wisconsin
17K gallon above ground
Manual Chlorine
Testing with TF-100

I continue to fight with my CYA. First, the black dot test seems so subjective. Is there a better, more definitive way?
I suspect my CYA to be somewhere between 70-90. I have drained water from the pool about three time, going down about 10 inches each time. I started over 100 and now at least I am under. I get that the math tells me I should drain 2/3 of the water to get down to 30-40 but that isn't really an option which is why I am doing it in stages. I am using 12.5 liquid cholr and keeping it at elevated levels in accordance with the "high CYA chart."
As I am writing this, I guess I should just keep emptying and refilling in stages. I just wanted to reach out to the experts in case there is something I am missing.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[PoolGate]

 

[mknauss]

going down about 10 inches each time

Why can you not drop the level further? You can safely lower the water to half way in an above ground pool.

The CYA test is the best there is for a residential homeowner.

 

[gramboda]

OKAY! I am getting there!
17000G above ground
Manual chlorine

My TA seems high at 230
Am I correct that the PH test in the TF-100 kit is the daily drop test in the 3-way kit? There doesnt seem to be another test like with the chlorine. From that test, my PH looks to be 7.8

So am I correct that I should add PH Down? I have some left over Clorox brand from when I was test stripping. Can I use that? Unless I am missing it on the package, I dont see the chemical make up of the product other than Sodium Bisulfate 93.2%

Also, since I have been fighting my high CYA (I currently have it down to 50,) will this Clorox stuff add any stabilizers? I dont want to start over again!

 

[gramboda]

I've read a little bit more. The Clorox PH Down is "dry acid" for Pool Math's purposes, I gather. If I am at 7.8 and my target is 7.6 and my goal is to lower my TA, Pool Math is saying I should add 1lb 13oz of dry acid (Clor PH Down). Sound about right? I ask cuz another article suggests I dont need to mess with TA if I dont have to.

 

[reggiehammond]

I've read a little bit more. The Clorox PH Down is "dry acid" for Pool Math's purposes, I gather. If I am at 7.8 and my target is 7.6 and my goal is to lower my TA, Pool Math is saying I should add 1lb 13oz of dry acid (Clor PH Down). Sound about right? I ask cuz another article suggests I dont need to mess with TA if I dont have to.

Don't mess with dry acid, a quick trip to Home Depot for Muriatic Acid will make life a LOT easier, and cheaper.

 

[magiteck]

I've read a little bit more. The Clorox PH Down is "dry acid" for Pool Math's purposes, I gather. If I am at 7.8 and my target is 7.6 and my goal is to lower my TA, Pool Math is saying I should add 1lb 13oz of dry acid (Clor PH Down). Sound about right? I ask cuz another article suggests I dont need to mess with TA if I dont have to.

Don't worry about your TA specifically, it is not by itself going to cause an issue with your above ground pool or equipment.

What the high TA will do is make your pH rise faster. When your pH hits 8, add Muratic Acid to drop it back down to 7.4. When you do that, the TA will come down some. The pH will rise again, and when it hits 8 again, add more acid to bring it back down to 7.4. Rinse, repeat. Over time, your TA levels will stabilize and your pH rises will slow down.

The dry acid you have adds sulfates to the water and isn't recommended for use. If you don't have a heater or a saltwater chlorine generator, it's probably not the end of the world to use the rest of what you have if needed. But definitely don't buy more. Head over to Menards and get some Muratic Acid (link below) from the paint section. It's cheap and won't add any byproducts to the water other than salt.

https://www.menards.com/main/paint/concrete-blacktop-sealers/concrete-cleaners/sunnyside-reg-muriatic-acid/710g1/p-1444444212919.htm

While your there you can stock up on liquid chlorine in their seasonal/pool section, as I find they have the best price on reasonably fresh LC, 12.5%, stored indoors.

 

[gramboda]

Don't worry about your TA specifically, it is not by itself going to cause an issue with your above ground pool or equipment.

What the high TA will do is make your pH rise faster. When your pH hits 8, add Muratic Acid to drop it back down to 7.4. When you do that, the TA will come down some. The pH will rise again, and when it hits 8 again, add more acid to bring it back down to 7.4. Rinse, repeat. Over time, your TA levels will stabilize and your pH rises will slow down.

The dry acid you have adds sulfates to the water and isn't recommended for use. If you don't have a heater or a saltwater chlorine generator, it's probably not the end of the world to use the rest of what you have if needed. But definitely don't buy more. Head over to Menards and get some Muratic Acid (link below) from the paint section. It's cheap and won't add any byproducts to the water other than salt.

https://www.menards.com/main/paint/concrete-blacktop-sealers/concrete-cleaners/sunnyside-reg-muriatic-acid/710g1/p-1444444212919.htm

While your there you can stock up on liquid chlorine in their seasonal/pool section, as I find they have the best price on reasonably fresh LC, 12.5%, stored indoors.

Perfect! Thanks for the help!!!

 

[magiteck]

Noticed I didn't hit a couple of your questions:

Am I correct that the PH test in the TF-100 kit is the daily drop test in the 3-way kit? There doesnt seem to be another test like with the chlorine. From that test, my PH looks to be 7.8

You are correct - that's how to test for pH.

Also, since I have been fighting my high CYA (I currently have it down to 50,) will this Clorox stuff add any stabilizers? I dont want to start over again!

While we don't recommend dry acid for the other reasons mentioned, no, it will not add stabilizer. The things that will add stabilizer to your pool are:

• Cyanuric Acid - (May be labeled/referred to as Stabilizer, Conditioner, CYA). You'll probably need to add a bit of this each spring to get your levels back to around 30-40, as some is lost over the winter from draining/refilling/rain/snow/etc., and a very small amount naturally degrades each month. From closing (October) - opening (April) mine dropped by about 20ppm.
• Trichlor (trichloro-s-triazinetrione, Trichloroisocyanuric acid) - These are the slow-dissolve "pucks" that many use to chlorinate. We don't recommend using these except for perhaps a short period of time while you go on vacation, provided your CYA isn't already too high.
• Dichlor (dichloro-s-triazinetrione, Dichloroisocyanuric acid) - This is a form of powdered shock. Unless you're intentionally trying to raise your CYA, it's not really suitable for anything other than some spas.