Winter tile damage on the overflow (two years in a row)

[sl7vk]

Hello, The only good thing about having pool problems is that I get to be back on the forum reading new posts.

For the second year in a row we have had tiles pop up from the flat part of the overflow (the one the cover glides on). I had a repair company come over and they told me that this problem is unavoidable here in Utah where our winters can be very cold. He recommended that we take all the tiles off, cut down/lower the gunite level by about an inch and install a kind coping there instead, then retile the water line underneath. The pool has an automatic cover that rests on that spot all winter long.

I am bracing myself for the bid that is coming my way. Before I make any rash decisions I thought I had better ask here if anyone has any experience with this product? right now the alternative could be just repairing the two tiles and wait to see what happens next winter...

Thank you in advance for your time

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Show us pictures of your situation.

 

[sl7vk]

Welcome to TFP.

Show us pictures of your situation.

I will take pictures in the morning and post, thank you

 

[wireform]

If the tile damage is on the bond wall top surface just before the cover vault then you have the water level to high. You would need to lower the water before the first freeze substantially to have room for the new precip and still be below the tile water line. Then when there the January warm up hit it again if there's liquid to get rid of.

 

[sl7vk]

Here is a picture taken today of the 4 tiles that have popped. last year we had more pop in different places. The grout starts white like the rest of the pool but almost immediately gets dirty from the cover. I used to try to clean it but it is futile.
The water level never gets to that point, in fact the water level is pretty stable in the winter. Utah is pretty dry, we are all told to keep the level touching vertical tiles so as to not expose the plaster, the water never freezes. This is the only place we are having problems with tiles, ditto all our friends with pools (different builders).

 

[Bperry]

Here is a picture taken today of the 4 tiles that have popped. last year we had more pop in different places. The grout starts white like the rest of the pool but almost immediately gets dirty from the cover. I used to try to clean it but it is futile.
The water level never gets to that point, in fact the water level is pretty stable in the winter. Utah is pretty dry, we are all told to keep the level touching vertical tiles so as to not expose the plaster, the water never freezes. This is the only place we are having problems with tiles, ditto all our friends with pools (different builders).


View attachment 630830

Looks like two tiles are loose because there’s no longer any space for two tiles there. Unless water is getting under them and then freeze heaving them up?

 

[wireform]

I would guess it started to heave from water and maybe in conjunction with expansion they were easy target for the movement. For just water they're too high.

 

[sl7vk]

Yes that is what happens here in Utah. The humidity trapped under the cover creates a wet environment for the grout, eventually water infiltrates and the freeze pops the tiles. I was wondering if any one had any experience with the coping product the pool repair guy told me about. They are saying that coping (thinner than my actual coping) will not pop but I am not so sure... Eventually even that will get infiltrated.

 

[Bperry]

Yes that is what happens here in Utah. The humidity trapped under the cover creates a wet environment for the grout, eventually water infiltrates and the freeze pops the tiles. I was wondering if any one had any experience with the coping product the pool repair guy told me about. They are saying that coping (thinner than my actual coping) will not pop but I am not so sure... Eventually even that will get infiltrated.

Water getting through the grout means the grout is not being used in the right environment. The grout needs to be 100% waterproof. Are you sure that’s why it’s failing?

If the same grout is used below the waterline for those tiles, then I’d ask for more information on exactly what product was used.

 

[sl7vk]

I am going to ask the builder what his guys used to repair the tiles last year. I was out of the country when the repair happened and frankly was underwhelmed by the look of the repair. The grout looked lumpy or maybe too dry when it was applied. Because everyone was just grateful it had been dealt with my pointing out the lumps didn't win me any friends. But I am glad to know now that not all grouts are created equal.

Water getting through the grout means the grout is not being used in the right environment. The grout needs to be 100% waterproof. Are you sure that’s why it’s failing?

If the same grout is used below the waterline for those tiles, then I’d ask for more information on exactly what product was used.

 

[ajw22]

Putting tile there is poor design. Tile on surfaces where water freezes is a problem.

No matter how good the grout is, over time grout develops cracks or shrinks. That allows water to get behind the tiles and erode the thinset. Then when water behind the tiles freezes it expands and can pop off tiles or crack the tiles.

You want your use a hard stone that can stand freezing water on that surface. And have as few joints as possible that can let water get behind the stone.

 

[wireform]

Tell me about it, have a client with same horizontal tile, pool was 5 years new last year so year 4 whenever the cover was opened or closed tiles were swept either into the deep end water or you heard "clunk clunk" as they were dropping into the cover vault box. He had all the tile work redone to the sum of $6k. Big pool with a spa in tne back corner so maybe it was more then the norm rework. We shall see how long it'll last.

 

[ajw22]

I was wondering if any one had any experience with the coping product the pool repair guy told me about.

What specific coping product?

 

[wireform]

Actually I'm thinking about other pools with auto cover and they don't have the tile on top of the bond wall by the cover and they do have some kind of stone. Will need to grab pictures next time I service.

 

[wireform]

Found some pictures that demonstrate the stone on the back bond wall.

 

[sl7vk]

The stone product you are showing is what the repairman was speaking about. He described it as a manufactured product but it could be the same thing right?

Thank you very much for the pictures and discussion.

 

[wireform]

Interestingly, all the auto cover pools that I can think of have some kind of stone except the one I wrote about. When he speaks of a manufactured product he probably means they get cut to be narrow and longer so there's less room for water intrusion.

 

[sl7vk]

I thought I would post a little update on this projet. The weather is finally nice here in Salt Lake City so we pulled all the tiles off the bond beam overflow (they came up very easily) and then my husband cleaned up the mortar off the concrete. Monday I will go purchase the specialty Mapei mortar from the good tile supply store (Contempo). I also need to buy the epoxy grout. I decided to replace the small tiles with large 12"x24" tiles in a matching color to the coping. It's a compromise since unfortunately we don't have the clearance to instal a coping product there.