Will a pool builder do an "independent evaluation"?

[Kgrant]

I had a new liner, pump, filter, lines (pretty much everything but the frame) redone recently on a 20'x40' vermiculite bottom. The installer made a mistake that he acknowledges (left a screw under the liner and it's not an easy fix). He is refusing to sign a very basic agreement that spells out what the issue is and how he plans to rectify it, and what happens if his attempt is not successful. I won't let him attempt his "repair" -- of a brand new $5000 liner!-- until he signs it or suggests alternate wording.  Now he's saying I'll have to take him to court. Question: how would I go about finding another installer/builder to come out and assess the problem and stand by that assessment? I'm worried that builders would absolutely know it's a very serious problem but might not want to "go on the record" against another builder. He is known in the area as being very nasty (unfortunately I listened to two people who said they used him and he was fine but online reviews say his attitude and treatment of customers is basically bullying. Could really use your advice on getting this assessed by another PB. Thank you!!
Kate


20'x 40' FNS Plus DE, Pentair, Loop Loc liner (complete with extra screw

 

[zea3]

You will have to call around and ask some of the other builders in the area. I assume you are looking for a couple of witnesses in case you do go to court?

 

[x Wild Bill x]

Hmm, would a pool repair company/person be more likely to do this than a pool builder? User PoolguyinCT is located in CT and I believe he cares for pools and also repairs them. Not sure if he would do an evaluation of your pool, but if he does that type of thing I would certainly have him do it. Based on all of the support and information he provides here he seems to be very educated in pool construction and repair and is someone I would want on my side. Not sure if sending a certified letter from a lawyer to your pool builder with certain terms would get him to smarten up and repair your pool before you took him to court. Based on your other thread with the picture I don't see how he could expect to win an argument in court, but I am not a lawyer.

 

[jimmythegreek]

I saw your other thread and its not an easy fix as the liner is already cut and fit. the chances of removing the liner and getting screw out then fitting again are tough IMO. The easy fix is to leave it, roll it, or cut new liner and patch. Not what you wanna hear I know. Removing the water and getting it out then putting back can be done, dont remember if its in shallow end or not if it is its doable. You basically just call out a company and get an estimate to remove the screw, their estimate will break down the cost of removing water, then liner, then repair, then install liner, and fill. If they cant guarantee liner to fit again the new liner will have a price on that too. thats your ammunition for court you can def take him to court the problem with little disputes is the lawyers charge more than you will get IF you ever get paid on it. I know many ppl who went down this route with contractors, etc. and they won but had to pay lawyers fees of thousands and never collected so it cost them MORE in the end. Just be wise about what you do but I totally feel for you. send poolguyCT a PM he does court appearances hes on a board too, Im sure he can do a write up via pictures for a small fee that would be proper for a court

 

[Kgrant]

Actually, he'd be getting off pretty easy on this problem, which is that his workers (he was not on site during installation), messed up big time. I have a friend who is a contract lawyer who suggested that before the repair is attempted we write a very simple agreement that specifies 4 things: 1. What the defect is (no disagreement there) 2. What the PB proposed based on his professional expertise (he wanted to roll it into the vermic. bottom) 3. What a "successful" result would be: screw not visible and no damage to liner (Again, we both agree) 4. What an unsuccessful repair would result in (again, this is what the PB said over the phone: that he would remove water, replace with new liner, return water. The issue is that he refused to sign this. I explained that the purpose was to clarify the process for *both* of us. It really was not about "getting him." If it was successful, I would have an imperfect liner that I paid full price for ($5700), which the other PBs I asked said (off-the-record) was nice of me bc they felt that the screw has probably already stretched the liner and there will be a weak spot; they felt the "right thing to do" would be for the PB to redo the job and "eat the cost." PB just keeps saying "don't you trust me?" and "you're making a mountain out of a molehill." I asked him if there was wording he would like to change to be sure it accurately reflects what we discussed, but he just yelled "you can't make me sign anything." (I often read these types of posts and say "there's got to be two sides of this story"-- I can point you to online reviews for this guy and BBB complaints that describe interactions with him as hostile, to say the least. And yeah, I know... I know!). Add to this that my 20-year Loop Loc warranty is currently void because of the "installation error" and "sharp object"


A picture for those who haven't seen it. The circle is a quarter next to it for size. It's a skimmer screw, in the deep end under 40,000 gal of water!

 

[Thasista]

What a nightmare. I have nothing to offer but my hope that it all works out well.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

You would need a state recognized expert witness / subject matter expert.

Expect to pay about $ 500 for the visit & written report.
If goes to court $1500 per day or part there of, those are ballpark rates for recognized credentials.

The gap in your play is was a standard cited in contract??
Argument can be made a Liner is a waterproofing Membrane & another line of thought is a screw does not qualify as prepared substrate.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Oh it's in the deep end. Ouch. Ur doing the right thing. Try to cover ur bases and get some estimates and then do what u need to do. They are right the liner is stretched but there's a good chance it will be fine esp that nobody is walking on it. After the money u spent I get u don't wanna play poker w it

 

[PoolguyinCT]

FYI - Your warranty only covers the seems & sheet material batch..

 

[blakeusa]

You could try your luck in small claims court in RI for up to $2500.

A strategy would be to ask the court to grant relief to allow you to hire another vendor to remove and replace the liner for $2500 or if the cost is above that you would
only be requesting the $2500 in a judgement.

The benefit of small claims is that its your word and documentation against his and judges are often very liberal.

Decisions are mailed to the parties normally in 30 days and its done. You win or loose.

 

[scdaren]

If he won't sign an agreement, don't get into an argument with him that will worsen the relationship. Just tell him okay, that's fine if he doesn't want to sign. Tell him instead you can just come to a agreement verbally. Then, document that conversation very carefully in a letter and mail it to him. When you send the letter, add a statement requesting that he notify you immediately in writing if he disagrees with any portion of your description of the verbal agreement. This is the next best thing to having him sign something. At the end of the day, this is a very obvious screwup on his part on you would very likely prevail in court without an expert witness. Doesn't take an expert for a judge or jury to make a finding of fact based on that photo. Having him agree to something additional at this point won't really change much. You already have a contract in place that provides for a screw-free liner.