Wife is tired of me wasting money on equipment ...

[mthird]

Where to start ...

Purchased a house with a 30k pool nearly 4 years ago and have sunk thousands of dollars worth of chemicals and equipment without a whole lot to show for it. This is not my first pool but it's by far the most difficult to maintain.

As I'm not very good at getting responses on forums as I think I come across as a know-it-al, I'm going to try to stick to stating facts and ask for help.

The facts:
* BBB method
* 30k gallon pool
* Surrounded 7 mature walnut trees in Florida with 3 hours of direct sunlight opened year round
* FNS Plus 36 (originally using DE then pulp now perlite)
* 1.5HP VS pump
* 1.5" plumbing
* AutoPilot SWG
* Solar water heater

Water chemistry from Taylor test kit (Pool Math rocks):
* FC 8.0
* pH 7.6
* TA 98
* CH 307
* CYA 40
* Salt 2800

The issues:
* Pollen during spring/summer, walnut shells (friggin squirrels) late summer, and an insane amount of leaves in winter fall into the pool
* Filter clogs within a few days to weeks
* Green algae and mustard algae overwhelm salt cell after the filter clogs
* High acid demand

Equipment changes:
* Replaced multiport valve as the old one was leaking
* Replaced 1HP Hayward pump that failed
* Added solar heater
* Added AutoPilot SWG
* Added flow meter check valve

Questions:
* Is my filter undersized?
* What else can I do to make this more trouble free?

I appreciate any response, even if it's just to commiserate.

Thanks,

Michael

 

[mknauss]

TA 98
* CH 307

Welcome to the forum!

The above test results are not from a proper test kit. How did you test those?

Your DE filter is small. And if you do not maintain your chemistry and get algae, it is a problem.

Are you not able to check your pool often during those times of pollen and leaves to be sure the skimmer basket is clear? Have you tried using skimmer socks or hair nets to reduce the particulate load going to the filter.

A CYA of 40 is pretty low for Florida. Is that the level you maintain during summer?

High acid demand -- what is your fill water TA and how much do you use?

 

[superuser]

The above test results are not from a proper test kit. How did you test those?

I think you may have missed it, he's using a Taylor kit. But, yeah those #'s do look a little too accurate, you estimating between the steps, mthird?

 

[kul]

TA is calculated by 10s where each drop is 10 so you can’t get 98.
Calcium is by 25 so you can’t get 307.

Though I use the TF-100 so that’s where my info is based on. Though usually both kits are comparable.

I agree about using a hair net/skimmer sock for your skimmer to prevent clogs and checking it more often. These are what I use:
Disposable Bouffant Caps Hair... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TNMN4YF?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[HeyEng]

+1 on the skimmer socks (or hair nets). I have been using them religiously and it makes a significant difference on the filter cleanliness. You can see from my avatar that we have PLENTY of trees and the resultant debris in the pool. Granted we have a large filter relative to our pool side, but I only have to clean it once a year.

 

[Jimrahbe]

M3,

Tell us how long you normally run your pump each day.

Tell us which specific Autopilot salt system you have including the Cell size/rating.

Tell us at what output% your cell normally runs.

In my opinion, the idea that your pollen, leaves and walnuts are causing your problems is just not right. It is just an excuse for not properly maintain your pool.

You say you have had algae. If so, I doubt you ever got rid of it, you just keep knocking it back, most likely with weekly bags of pool store shock, but you have yet to actually kill it. Having a "little" algae is like being a little pregnant.

We'd be glad to get you pointed in the right direction.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

+1. We got you M

Overnight Chlorine Loss Test with the Taylor kit

Then a likely SLAM Process

 

[mthird]

Thanks for all the responses!

I do use a TST test kit but forgot those numbers came from the Leslie's LaMotte WaterLink test kit.

I haven't used the skimmer socks yet, though I do have them for dosing CYA.

It seems I have to do the mustard level SLAM every few months after there is any disturbance to the flow rate (out of town for the weekend, heavy rainfall, etc). I do use the overnight Chlorine loss test to verify the process is complete.

The LPG that maintained this pool for the previous owner came out this morning and said the filter is undersized and that it was the hardest pool he's had to maintain in his 11 year career (take that for what it's worth).

More facts:
* The pump runs 13 hours a day at 40-50gpm (dropping to 20gpm as the filter clogs) with speed adjustments when solar kicks in
* The SWG is a Digital Complete with PPC3 cell
* Pool surface is over 30 years old and pitted

 

[Newdude]

It seems I have to do the mustard level SLAM every few months after there is any disturbance to the flow rate (out of town for the weekend, heavy rainfall, etc). I

With your CYA at 40, the FC won't last long and you likely dance the line around minimum. At that point, any slight change can nudge you into algae town, like a big storm that wasn't mixed quickly, a get together day or a particularly high UV day.

Once dialed in my SWG went 2 weeks on its own. Every other test was fine and sometimes 2 out of 3 didn't need anything changed. (6 weeks without adjusting anything) Going away for a weekend is irrelevant if the system is dialed in properly and the water balanced.

Don't worry, we'll get you there. Start with a new Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. If it passes we raise your CYA. If not, it will be easier to maintain a lower FC during the SLAM.

 

[mthird]

Finally back in town and started the SLAM today. CYA 40 so pool math says target is 16 FC. I plan to raise the CYA after to minimize chlorine costs. I normally try for 80 but we get so much rain.

 

[Newdude]

Don't forget the M is for maintain. the more it stays at SLAM level, the quicker it goes. We all have a life too, so we get it, but do the best you can to hit it every 2-3 hours at first. (or as much as life allows)

Always a smart call to Slam with lower

 

[cowboycasey]

There are 2 bigger DE filters that the one you have.. DE filters are the best and worse filters out there..

They get almost EVERYTHING out of the water and that is both the good and the bad... Because they get everything the second your pool gets a little off the filter gets clogged and your in trouble...

I always recommend cartridge filters as they are really great at the middle of the road, good enough to keep the pool clear and they take A LOT to clog up and last for a year if you go BIG for your pool... I have a Pentair Clean and Clear plus 320 for my 15k pool, I would recommend the 520 for your 30k pool.. I can go a full year before I clean my filter and the pressure goes up 1 psi in that year... I do only run 9 months a year...

I am not surprised you have a smaller filter, they always go small in Florida, its a thing we have noticed over the years...

 

[mthird]

Ha! Was expecting you to be from Texas ...

One interesting thing I have been wondering about the last 18 months is why my CYA seems to always test lower than I expected no matter how much I add. To be honest, I only check that parameter every 4-6 months as common wisdom says CYA doesn't go anywhere without a water change. ... but after reading the CYA degradation thread on TFP I discovered that I hit all the boxes.

• High acid demand that leads to regular pH > 8.2 (I'm a bad pool owner)
• Poor pool filter maintenance leading to low flow and no chlorine generation
  • Frequent shocking
  • Opportunities for bacterial growth
• Florida sunlight
• 90deg water temps much of the year

Some background data using the same Leslie's computer test:

On 10/17:

CYA - 25​

CH - 307​

On 10/18, I added 7lbs of dry stabilizer which should have brought my CYA up to 53. Unfortunately, I did not test it a week later to verify.

On 3/21:

CYA - 5​

CH - 290​

Using the CH as a proxy for water evaporation/rain (I have not added any city water during this time), my CYA should have been around 50. If I'm understanding this correctly, my pool is losing 9ppm of CYA per month.

I'm going to add the CYA test to my biweekly testing rotation.

There are 2 bigger DE filters that the one you have.. DE filters are the best and worse filters out there..

They get almost EVERYTHING out of the water and that is both the good and the bad... Because they get everything the second your pool gets a little off the filter gets clogged and your in trouble...

I always recommend cartridge filters as they are really great at the middle of the road, good enough to keep the pool clear and they take A LOT to clog up and last for a year if you go BIG for your pool... I have a Pentair Clean and Clear plus 320 for my 15k pool, I would recommend the 520 for your 30k pool.. I can go a full year before I clean my filter and the pressure goes up 1 psi in that year... I do only run 9 months a year...

I am not surprised you have a smaller filter, they always go small in Florida, its a thing we have noticed over the years...

 

[Newdude]

To be honest, I only check that parameter every 4-6 months as common wisdom says CYA doesn't go anywhere without a water change

You average 54 inches a year of rain in FL, which is almost 1 full water exchange in most inground pools. Some of that is going to go right out your likely overflow drain, but plenty will still mix and dillute the pool.

The extreme heat will also speed things along. Members have reported a 10%-15% loss in the peak season in hot climates.


Test the CYA with only the TF100. The others have proven to be off too many times to take any stock in what they say. If you are current with TF100 testing and want to spot check with the Lamotte, great if it agrees. Do not use it as the primary.

 

[mknauss]

CYA - 5

That is not a possible test result using a proper test kit.

 

[mthird]

That is not a possible test result using a proper test kit.

Sounds like nobody likes the Lamotte testing platform. The TF100 CYA test is nontrivial to read right, especially if you don't have a way of confirming your results to train your eye (funny intended because of the wobbly eyeball in the bottom of the tube!).

 

[mknauss]

Put what test kit you have in your signature.

5 ppm means not readable.

The Lamotte is OK but should be checked with a Taylor test if chemical additions are needed.

 

[Newdude]

funny intended because of the wobbly eyeball in the bottom of the tube

Rest assured the googley eye mocks us all. But it is still accurate enough, even if you are off by 10, to live trouble free.

I found I needed to glance, and I mean a quick flash of a look, to get it right. More than a snap of the fingers and I saw the dot no matter what.

 

[mthird]

Although a reading of 0 is pretty easy ... (maybe I should have picked a different backdrop for the image besides a black table)

 

[mthird]

SLAM is still ongoing. The main problem remaining before getting the chemistry back on track is to filter out all the detritus.

I think I have some mutliport valve blowby as I am seeing a lot of debris get trapped in the AutoPilot manifold screen. I'll be checking the spider gasket this weekend.