What's most relaible Heater brand/model (400K BTU Propane)?

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CountryBumkin

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Jan 9, 2017
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Orlando/FL
I'm replacing my rusted out old Jandy milli-volt Spa Heater. Its about 7-8 years old. I already replaced about every part over the years (including heat exchanger) and now housing is falling apart.

I want a heater with "Cupro-nickel" heat exchanger (I have a Salt water pool).
I also see the heaters with "ASME" are supposed to be commercial grade. I don't know if "commercial" means better built or if it just has some added safety feature - but they do all seem to have cupro-nickel heat exchangers.

I found these (all 400K BTU, Propane):

JANDY Legacy LRZ400EPN (not ASME, has cupro-nickel) --- $2,682
HAYWARD H400FDPASME (ASME and cupro-nickel) --- cheapest at $2,344
PENTAIR MASTERTEMP #460776 (ASME and I think cupro-nickel) -- most expensive, around $2,820
STA RITE #460764 (ASME, I think its Cupro-nickel heat exchanger) -- $2,512


Does anyone have any experience with these models, or recommendations?
 
You will find that the heater experts on this forum all recommend the Raypak heaters as they are the simplest in design with the least number of moving parts (no forced air blower to worry about) and they are fairly easy to service.

Cupronickel is certainly a good choice but the AMSE "commercial" grade is not worth the extra cost. I have a salt water pool and a standard copper heat exchanger and I can tell you my water is fine and my heat exchanger is in fine condition as well. If you are worried about corrosion, then keeping your water properly balanced and not letting the pH get low is what matters because metal corrosion is entirely dominated by pH. People who experience heater core corrosion are usually the ones that never properly take care of the water in the first place or who dump chemicals in their skimmer basket and then wonder why their heater cores rot out...
 
Thanks for the feedback. No ASME. I see one of the forum sponsors has a RayPak model #014953 Heater that has a cupro-nickel heat exchanger.

BTW - I have a RayPak Heat Pump which is also broken now (refrigerant leaked out) but it was a bad investment anyways because I never had good reason to "heat" the pool water (in FL). What I really need is a water cooler. When I get around to replacing this, I'm just going to get a water "chiller".

With regards to the Spa heater. The reason I want Cupro-nickel is because sometimes I find my water is not well balanced (usually PH is off) but I correct as soon as I can, So I would rather pay a little more for cupro-nickel and get the extra protection. On my last spa heater I had to replace the copper heat exchanger after about 5 years.
 
CountryBumkin said:
With regards to the Spa heater. The reason I want Cupro-nickel is because sometimes I find my water is not well balanced (usually PH is off) but I correct as soon as I can, So I would rather pay a little more for cupro-nickel and get the extra protection. On my last spa heater I had to replace the copper heat exchanger after about 5 years.
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5 years is definitely not a good run for a heater core. If it did fail from corrosion issues, then your water is/was definitely not being balanced properly.

Not trying to sound argumentative but, getting the cupronickel heat exchanger is not the answer. It's like slapping a new coat of paint on wall infested with termites - sure, it'll look good for a while and hide the problem, but the underlying failure mechanism is still there. The correct approach is to solve the balance and chemistry issues of the water and then you won't need the cupronickel heat exchanger in the first place.

Just sayin' is all....




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Raypak is the best bet. You don't need the cupro nickel. It's overkill in a residential setting and really is not a real piece of mind. Just keep your water properly balanced and you'll be fine. If you're off here and there it will not destroy it. It's when it is off for long periods like months. So just keep it balanced.

Since I work exclusively on gas pool heaters, all the brands you mentioned have issues and or will cost you a lot more when they break over the Raypak. Plus as it has been mentioned, the Raypak is quiet to run.
 
ps0303 said:
As with all brands, make sure you have it installed by a licensed contractor in order to reap the entire warranty.
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That's good advise, but I will still install it myself.

I did my entire pool build acting as GC (and doing most plumbing and electrical myself), so I have a good knowledge of the mechanicals and code requirements. I may not be eligible for warranty by self installing (but that's a risk I'm willing to take). Besides, the warranty is only 1 year (I've never had any equipment fail within a year - it's always 2-3+ years later).
 

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I don't know if I saved anything - I went over budget in the end - because at every decision point I went the more upscale/expensive option. But honestly, I think I would have saved about $5K (had I built the same pools I was being quoted). In the end I spent about $45K in total including the large paver deck (which was not in the original budget).

The process started out by having a couple local pool builders come out and discuss pool size and options for my budget (with was around $30K to $35K a the time).
I did a lot of research using the pool forums and internet DIY sites so I knew what I wanted and what was available. But I wasn't happy with the pool builders responses - for example, I want a salt pool, but the one builder tried to talk me out of it saying how corrosive it would be, etc. I wanted a pool with a raised spa that overflowed back into the pool but the builder said it couldn't be done on my budget. etc. I wanted "Pebble Tec" finish but the builder never heard of it and wanted to use his subcontractor. It went on and on like this. So at that point I decided to just build it myself.

So I went around to my neighbors and friends to find out what they liked and didn't like about their pools - and (most importantly) I found out what subcontractors came out on their builds. Meaning you hire ABC pool company but then ABC subcontracts out the excavation work, pool shell/plaster, tile work, plumbing, electrical, etc. Once you know who these subcontractor guys are its easy to call them and get them to quote/do the job. The value to hiring a pool contractor for the entire job is that they know which subs do good work. If you don't know who the good subs are you will have a tougher time doing the pool yourself.

In the end I designed the pool I wanted, bough the features I wanted, and contracted with the subs myself. I had full control over the process.
 
That might work where you live, where I live pool subs are pretty loyal to the contractors. I had a hard time finding someone to plaster without going through a contractor, if the sub goes on their own the contractors will not use them again.


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Will a 1" gas line supply enough natural gas for a 400K heater?


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400,000 btu (Natural gas) needs at least 1.25" up to 100 foot run (total equivalent length). 1.5" up to 200' run total equivalent length.

Alternatively, you could use a 3/4" line at 2 psi to a regulator near the heater, which steps down the pressure to heater inlet pressure.

Always consult with a local qualified gas contractor to make sure all applicable codes are followed. Always follow all manufacturer's installation instructions.

Note: Answering the above question, which asks about Natural gas. However, the OP has specified propane.
 
Lykly said:
Will a 1" gas line supply enough natural gas for a 400K heater?


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Click to expand...

You need to look at the meter for your service. Depending on that psi rating will determine what you need. You also need to consider the load/devices you already have on the gas line. With the correct meter I have been able to run a 400K Raypak on 50' of 3/4 pipe. If you are unsure of your meters rating, call your gas company and request that they come out and check it out.
 
3/4" will only work as a first stage at higher pressure. It will not work as a single stage at heater inlet pressure. It will not meet code and it will not meet manufacturer's instructions. It's not even close.

If the heater had any problems related to gas pressure, the manufacturer could deny warranty based on inadequate line size.

Even if it ran without problems, you probably would not get the full heat output. You would probably get significantly less.

A heater installation needs to meet local codes and manufacturer's instructions. Both are usually available. If there is a difference, you go with the larger size.
 
Here is what Raypak specifies for their 400,000 btu/hr heater.

Natural gas
3/4" Can be used up to 5' to make the final connection to the heater.
1" can be used up to 20'
1.25" can be used up to 95'
1.5" can be used up to 215'

Propane
3/4" can be used up to 15'
1" can be used up to 55'
1.25" can be used up to 225'
1.5 can be used up to 480'

My original post was assuming natural gas, which was asked about in the post prior. However, on re-reading the original post, I see that it says propane.

Also. Note that pipe lengths given are "equivalent length of straight pipe". Equivalent length is length of straight pipe plus a multiplier per fitting. For example, every 90 fitting adds the equivalent of 2 to 4 feet of straight pipe.
 

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