Water softener installation!!

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Well, if I didn't work on my pool and dig ditches and crawl around in the dirt running pipe, I wouldn't get any exercise at all, so no Witch for me!! ;)
 
You are both kind of right... its called a Horizontal Directional Driller and the confusion likely arose since Ditch Witch makes one. Here's their version:

DW2.jpg

There are some pretty advanced versions that can change depth mid-travel to avoid existing utility lines and whatnot.

Figure-1B.jpg

The PVC method Dirk mentioned works very well - most of a lot of the the time :laughblue:
 
bdavis466 said:
You are both kind of right... its called a Horizontal Directional Driller and the confusion likely arose since Ditch Witch makes one. Here's their version:

View attachment 77160

There are some pretty advanced versions that can change depth mid-travel to avoid existing utility lines and whatnot.

View attachment 77161

The PVC method Dirk mentioned works very well - most of a lot of the the time :laughblue:
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I take it you have some experience with the ghetto-PVC method failing :scratch: :laughblue:

Either way, I still TOTALLY WANT ONE!!! My current directional drilling technology centers on ground squirrels tied to a string...they dig straight for a few feet but get spooked easily and then who knows where they wind up.... and rabies shots are expensive when they bite!!
 
JoyfulNoise said:
...I could go crazy and get one of those wall mounted RO systems for the fridge but they are horribly inefficient (one I saw used 5.5 gallons of input water to create 1 gallon of RO water :shock: how’s that for incredible inefficiency!!)
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I always kind of chuckle when this gets brought up. Our RO units use about three gallons to produce one gallon of pure clean wonderfully tasting water. It seems like a small price to pay compared to wasting water from the dishwasher or the washing machine. As an added bonus we run our RO waste line to a plant outside. I wish I could do that with other appliances that use water including our softener that wastes 80ish gallons per regeneration, but I worry the brackish or soapy water will damage our plants.

I hope the softener works works well for your application, I actually have to add CH occasionally by the way of CalHypo.
 

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CaptainCannonball said:
I always kind of chuckle when this gets brought up. Our RO units use about three gallons to produce one gallon of pure clean wonderfully tasting water. It seems like a small price to pay compared to wasting water from the dishwasher or the washing machine. As an added bonus we run our RO waste line to a plant outside. I wish I could do that with other appliances that use water including our softener that wastes 80ish gallons per regeneration, but I worry the brackish or soapy water will damage our plants.

I hope the softener works works well for your application, I actually have to add CH occasionally by the way of CalHypo.
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Not sure if you read my thread or where your info is coming from but my softener uses 25 gallons per regen cycle. Modern softeners with Clack valves that use demand-initiated regeneration are far more efficient than what you are using for a basis of comparison. As well, modern home construction uses plumbing service loops to break the main line up into different runs. If done according to code and by a competent plumber, you only plumb softened water to specific areas of the home. That way the softener is not being used for wasteful applications. Laundry and dishes get much cleaner with softener water when the municipal supply is very hard. It also saves on detergent as you use far less of it to get the same effect.

Here in Southern Arizona, water is very expensive and so wasting 3 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of water, ie, 25% efficiency, makes no sense whatsoever :scratch: For a water softener, you expend 25 gallons of water and you get 1500 gallons of calcium free water....I like that ratio a lot more!

Now if you install a whole-house RO system that includes prefilters (and you typically need a salt-based water softener) and a dedicated high pressure input pump along with post processing filtration, storage and repressurization equipment, you can get an RO system up to 85-90% efficient. However, your installed cost will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $15,000 to $20,000 when all is said and done.
 
CaptainCannonball said:
As an added bonus we run our RO waste line to a plant outside.
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What a great idea!! I have plants just on the other side of that wall. No harm at all to your garden-variety garden variety?

Is it under pressure? Could you connect it to drip tubing and distribute to several plants? I don't mean using emitters, that would create back pressure, just a few Ts.

Could I expect that to get clogged up? I have a whole-house filter, so nothing of size is going into the RO. Does it discharge anything of size? Or just water and molecules?

Hmmm, my whole-house filter discharges every few weeks, like a softener. But I have it plumbed before the softener, so it wouldn't be softened water. Do you think that filter's discharge would be harmful to plants? Because otherwise, I should be running that to my garden, too. It's this thing, from Lowes:


Shop Whirlpool Whole House Water Filtration System at Lowes.com
 
Yes our home is plumbed similarly to yours, I was a bit confused about you wanting soft water to your refrigerator though... it really isn't good for drinking. I was only making the comparison to using three gallons of water to "clean" a gallon of drinking water as opposed to using several gallons of water to clean your dishes or clothing. Not to mention the "waste" water isn't really wasted unless you want to waste it.

My softener is a "modern" unit if you are using a demand based regeneration as a qualifier, it just happens to be a bit larger. You might be surprised how quickly those 1500 gallons go. My 80 gallons during regeneration provide for 5000 gallons of use.

Edit: was replying to JoyfulNoise
 
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CaptainCannonball said:
Yes our home is plumbed similarly to yours, I was a bit confused about you wanting soft water to your refrigerator though... it really isn't good for drinking. I was only making the comparison to using three gallons of water to "clean" a gallon of drinking water as opposed to using several gallons of water to clean your dishes or clothing. Not to mention the "waste" water isn't really wasted unless you want to waste it.
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Not sure if you were answering my post (since you skipped over all my questions). I didn't particularly want soft water to the fridge. It's what's available under my sink. I questioned that, to my water guy, and he assured me nothing would get past the RO. Of course, RO isn't really that great for drinking either.

Remember when you could turn on a faucet and drink from it? And bottled water was something reserved for the snootiest of restaurants?
 
Dirk said:
Not sure if you were answering my post (since you skipped over all my questions). I didn't particularly want soft water to the fridge. It's what's available under my sink. I questioned that, to my water guy, and he assured me nothing would get past the RO. Of course, RO isn't really that great for drinking either.

Remember when you could turn on a faucet and drink from it? And bottled water was something reserved for the snootiest of restaurants?
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Our RO system has a "polishing" filter that adds back a little calcium/magnesium and increases the PH. It is literally the best water I have ever had. I'm not sure why you would think RO isn't good for drinking.

The waste water from the RO system just has more "impurities" that depend on your source water. I'm not sure of the pressure but ours is split to three different locations. The more I think about it, maybe I should divert it into the pool, although it kind of defeats the purpose of using soft water as a fill.

Im not an expert on what would be in your discharge water from your whole house filter. I'm sure it depends heavily on your source water. Sorry I can't help, but my guess is it would be fine... the problem is it is so intermittent I doubt it would be worthwhile.
 
My softener is a two stage elimination system - a granular activates carbon tank inline with a 54k grain softener tank. So the GAC tank takes care of chlorine/chloramine/VOCs and the softener removes calcium. The softener water tastes fine to me and my household and there is no health risk to drinking softened water unless you happen to have renal disease and no one here does. The only difference between softened water and unsoftened water is no calcium/magnesium and an increase in sodium. Chloride increase is minimal. RO water, if it’s functioning properly, will have no metal ions or anions (chloride, carbonate, etc) in it. Polishing tanks add back a small amount of hardness and alkalinity as RO water tends to be mildly acidic and would, in and of itself, damage plumbing over time.

RO waste water is going to have higher concentrations of all ionic species in it. I would not use it for irrigation purposes as it would, overtime, increase soil sodicity and thus lead to osmotic stress on the root system and rhizosphere. In a region where rainfall is plentiful, that’s not much of a concern but in an arid climate such as mine, using brine discharge or RO waste water would be toxic to the soil.
 
Arizonarob said:
:shock:

Where did you hear that?? Just like captain caveman, my water tastes fantastic. What do you think you get in any bottled water?(other then spring)
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Not a good choice of words. RO is great for drinking. But some miss the taste of what RO strips out...
 
JoyfulNoise said:
My softener is a two stage elimination system - a granular activates carbon tank inline with a 54k grain softener tank. So the GAC tank takes care of chlorine/chloramine/VOCs and the softener removes calcium. The softener water tastes fine to me and my household and there is no health risk to drinking softened water unless you happen to have renal disease and no one here does. The only difference between softened water and unsoftened water is no calcium/magnesium and an increase in sodium. Chloride increase is minimal. RO water, if it’s functioning properly, will have no metal ions or anions (chloride, carbonate, etc) in it. Polishing tanks add back a small amount of hardness and alkalinity as RO water tends to be mildly acidic and would, in and of itself, damage plumbing over time.

RO waste water is going to have higher concentrations of all ionic species in it. I would not use it for irrigation purposes as it would, overtime, increase soil sodicity and thus lead to osmotic stress on the root system and rhizosphere. In a region where rainfall is plentiful, that’s not much of a concern but in an arid climate such as mine, using brine discharge or RO waste water would be toxic to the soil.
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Thanks, Matt. Good to know. One less hole in the wall, one less project. I'm going to put aside the water-waste issue. I use water I don't ingest (dishwasher, washing machine, RO, bathing, cleaning, etc). Guilty as charged (or discharged as the case may be)!! If I was being conscientious about not wasting water, I couldn't very well own a evaporation pond swimming pool, now could I?
 

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