Water level rising with no rain

[Dirk]

That’s exactly the one I have. They are incredibly reliable. I have no idea why pool builders choose to install the toilet bowl ones. My one thought was that maybe you can make the fill pot smaller with the toilet bowl version and so there’s less impact on the pool design by not having a big fill pot sitting on your deck somewhere but I really can’t believe it would save that much space.

Mine is actually an auto-leveler. In addition to the filler there's a drain pipe that is also adjustable. So I can control both how low and how high my water level gets. I never have to worry about too much sun or too much rain. But...

When the filler fails on, it just pumps water into the out port, and unless I watch it periodically, it could do that for months unnoticed. Well, at least until the next water bill shows up, or the one after. So my new water meter will help with that aspect, too.

If the two are properly adjusted, far enough apart, then I can just observe the edge tile. If the level gets higher than expected, that would indicate the water is up to the out port, revealing a problem. I've just been lax about it this last year, and now realize that first replacement valve was no better than the original one in terms of life-span, so I have to be more diligent. Both in observing the level and in pro-actively replacing the valve.

Point was, the well is narrow and there's more than just the toilet valve in there. I doubt I could retrofit the type you guys have, so that might be why it was originally designed with the more vertically-shaped valve.

 

[Dirk]

There are many (especially builders) that don't like auto-fillers for the scenario cited above. If there is an overflow port and a stuck auto-fill valve, then there is the potential for a lot of wasted water and dollars. But...

- If I was left to fill my pool manually, I would overflow it regularly, wasting far more water and money, and probably ruining my landscaping to boot. I'd rather chance a toilet valve failing every half-decade than overflowing my pool every other day.

- In terms of protecting my pump, I would rather the pool be too full than below the skimmer mouth (I have no drains).

- And the fact that I don't have to drag out a hose and fill my pool every day during the summer is worth maybe wasting $30 worth of water someday.

So the potential for a haywire filler-run-wild is outweighed by its benefits (to me, anyway).

Regardless of filler or no filler, and overflow or no overflow, it all comes down to due diligence. Even in the simplest of pools there are too many "moving parts" to ignore for any length of time. A daily quick glance and a more thorough equipment inspection at least once a week is the bare minimum. There is no pool that can go weeks unobserved. It's been said here a pool is like a pet, you don't have to play with it everyday, but you do have to care for it at least that often.

 

[Toxophilite]

Point was, the well is narrow and there's more than just the toilet valve in there. I doubt I could retrofit the type you guys have, so that might be why it was originally designed with the more vertically-shaped valve.

That's the sticking point! With an elbow to retrofit, there's only about 4" left to play. All the horizontal floats need way more room for float and enough arm for leverage, or, a long float. I guess the application where used are much larger cans. There's good options in ag for some vertical mount in stainless, or heavy material, simpler designs than toilet valves, but designed for fixed pipe, so no means of adjustment. I've found some micro horizontal, adjustable arm, floats, but they all seem to come in 1/4". Will keep looking for better option for sure, though.

 

[Dirk]

@Noob just liked some of my posts in this thread, specifically where I talked about using $7 Lowes toilet valves in my auto-leveling system. I never did put one in until this year, and then proceeded to have nothing but trouble with it. I'll spare the details, suffice to say there was some wasted water.

I yanked that valve out a couple weeks ago and replaced it with the OEM part I ordered from poolmiser.com, and my auto-filler has worked flawlessly since.

I swear they are near-identical valves, but either that is not true, or I got a bad one? Anyway, I'm done messing with trying to save $20, it cost me way more than that in water and labor and stress. From now on, OEM only.

 

[Noob]

@Noob just liked some of my posts in this thread, specifically where I talked about using $7 Lowes toilet valves in my auto-leveling system. I never did put one in until this year, and then proceeded to have nothing but trouble with it. I'll spare the details, suffice to say there was some wasted water.

I yanked that valve out a couple weeks ago and replaced it with the OEM part I ordered from poolmiser.com, and my auto-filler has worked flawlessly since.

I swear they are near-identical valves, but either that is not true, or I got a bad one? Anyway, I'm done messing with trying to save $20, it cost me way more than that in water and labor and stress. From now on, OEM only.

Heya Dirk, thanks for the shoutout, lol. I was following your comments because I can't get my autofill valve to shut off completely so was researching how to get a replacement. Unfortunately, I'm not the original owner so as far as I can tell, the valve has always been just a plain fluidmaster toilet fill valve. The first few years I owned this pool, the autofill actually did work--it turned on when the water dropped and shut off when the water reached the preset level.

In the past few years, though, it doesn't shut off completely, even when the water is several inches above the fill level (floater). The running water (tube) shuts off, but I can still hear a low hissing and the water meter by the street shows a very slow leak. When I shut off the water connection to the autofill, the hissing stops completely.

I just had the fill valve replaced (with another fluidmaster toilet fill valve but with brass fitting) and it's still doing the low hissing so I guess I'll buy the actual pentair fluidmaster T29 next and try that, even though they look almost identical to me.

Could it be there's something wrong with the tank or the fitting where the valve screws down instead? I'm hoping not, because I can't even figure out what kind of autofill this is.

 

[Dirk]

That tank doesn't look like mine. That's not to say it isn't a PoolMiser, just that it's not like mine. It could be a Pentair, but it doesn't look like their current offerings.

Just for giggles, go to Contact — POOLMISER and send those pics to the PoolMiser email address, and ask them if they recognize it. They're a little slow on email, but all they can do is not answer. Who knows.

A few things I think I know:

That black hose definitely makes it a toilet valve. You'll find the Pentair (or PoolMiser) OEM part won't have that. It'll still have the barb it connects to, but the barb is filled with plastic, so it's non functional.

And the threads at the bottom of those valves (all toilet tank valves) are some weird type. Pretty much found only on toilet valves. And they're not tapered, so you don't use teflon tape or thread dope on them. They are just straight threads. That stem seals to the well with a rubber gasket. That should come with the valve. Just make sure you get it in place.

Be super careful threading it in. It's all plastic, and that well is probably embedded in the concrete. So if you cross thread it, it'll be a major-major problem. Just go slow, be sure you start the threads correctly.

I've fixed previous valves by popping off the top and cleaning out the grit that collects there. Keep that in mind for next time. I would have suggested that, but a new valve will solve for that. If it's still hissing after you put in a new valve, it can really only be two things: the gasket I just described is missing or not seated properly, or the tank is leaking, either through the walls somewhere, or perhaps underneath. Let's hope it's not that.

The hissing is kind'a a clue. The hissing indicates the valve is not closing. If it or the stem were leaking, or the connection below was not seated properly, it wouldn't make a hissing sound.

If you never do get it to stop hissing, there is another solution. You can automate the valve's water source, and put it on a timer. That would at least eliminate wasted water, but still save the auto-fill function. I have the setup for that (for a different reason). So come on back and ask and I'll walk you through that. You might be tempted to use a sprinkler valve, but don't. That's the wrong solution. I'll describe why some other time.

Good luck.