Very low filter pressures

[Underwhere]

I'm trying to figure out a bunch of issues so you may see some different threads from me.

Pool - 12k gallon octagonal in-ground
Pump - 1 HP Hayward Super Flow pump
Filter - Hayward S220T filter
Filter media - ZeoSand #4429 (250 pounds)

2 years ago I replaced the pump
1 year ago I ordered a Hayward S220T filter system and ZeoSand. It worked wonderfully after I finished re-piping but the odd thing I noticed was that I was getting very low pressure readings off the gauge on the valve.

I'm seeing a normal pressure of about 2.5 to 3psi.
When opening the pool the highest I saw was about 7psi and then I backwashed.

Is this an issue? Should I put in a gauge on the suction side to see the negative pressures?

Things I checked:
1. Impeller for any obstruction - there was none
2. Seal on the pump basket - Looked fine. I cleaned it.
3. Drain plug on the pump basket - Tightened it. Do not see any issues

I have the following issues:
1. Returns have air bubbles coming out (this has been happening for years and I can't figure out why)
2. I think I have a leak somewhere as on random occasions my pool will drop 1-2 inches in a day. I can't find any obvious water leaks. The waste line is not wet.
3. Vacuum suction - I don't think it's very powerful. My automatic vacuum does not work and I think it's because there isn't enough suction to drive it. (I tried buying 1 piece hose instead of sectional and priming by filling it with the return as well as submerging it)

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Pump basket seal - you cleaned it. Did you lube it? Is there air in the pump basket or is it completely full?

Pressure, how does the water feel coming from the bubbling return jets?

Vacuum is a suction cleaner I assume? The section hoses are lighter and designed for the vacuum, using a typical pool hose that is not designed for that is not going to help because of the weight. When you put the cleaner in the skimmer, do you isolate that skimmer to increase the suction? You would do this by closing the main drain and any other skimmer.

1 to 2 inches in one day, definitely indicates a leak. You may need to call in a service company to do a leak detection.

 

[Underwhere]

Pump basket seal - you cleaned it. Did you lube it? Is there air in the pump basket or is it completely full?

Pressure, how does the water feel coming from the bubbling return jets?

Vacuum is a suction cleaner I assume? The section hoses are lighter and designed for the vacuum, using a typical pool hose that is not designed for that is not going to help because of the weight. When you put the cleaner in the skimmer, do you isolate that skimmer to increase the suction? You would do this by closing the main drain and any other skimmer.

1 to 2 inches in one day, definitely indicates a leak. You may need to call in a service company to do a leak detection.

I bought lube at the store and will try it. I pulled the gasket out and cleaned everything with a plastic brush and then wiped both the cover and the gasket off to clear any debris. It seemed fine. No rips.

The pump basket being full: When I opened the pool this year I filled the bump basket and water kept on flowing down the inlet that goes to the skimmer.
So the basket water level sits at the bottom of that inlet. Is that considered full?

Water from the jets - It feels fine but occasionally a lot of bubbles gurgle up. Clearly noticeable from even far away.

I do not have a main drain. I only have the skimmer.

Leak - Yea I may need to call someone.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I bought lube at the store and will try it. I pulled the gasket out and cleaned everything with a plastic brush and then wiped both the cover and the gasket off to clear any debris. It seemed fine. No rips.

The pump basket being full: When I opened the pool this year I filled the bump basket and water kept on flowing down the inlet that goes to the skimmer.
So the basket water level sits at the bottom of that inlet. Is that considered full?

Water from the jets - It feels fine but occasionally a lot of bubbles gurgle up. Clearly noticeable from even far away.

I do not have a main drain. I only have the skimmer.

Leak - Yea I may need to call someone.

EDIT: When the pump is running, is it completely full to the top of the lid? Or is there alot of air/bubbles inside the pump basket lid.
(sorry forgot which thread I was on. lol)

 

[Underwhere]

Try closing the valve that goes into the pump basket. Fill basket with water. Turn on pump and slowly open the valve. It may take a couple of tries.

Hmm. There is no valve. So maybe I should put one in?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Hmm. There is no valve. So maybe I should put one in?

Yes, definitely. I'm surprised there is not, and surprised there is a clamp connection and not hard plumbing. Doesn't look like you have a lot of room to work with though....

I would clear all those leaves out of there, the motors can get very hot... is that dirt or is there cement under them?

- - - Updated - - -

What kind of material is that black piping?

 

[Underwhere]

Yes, definitely. I'm surprised there is not, and surprised there is a clamp connection and not hard plumbing. Doesn't look like you have a lot of room to work with though....

I would clear all those leaves out of there, the motors can get very hot... is that dirt or is there cement under them?

- - - Updated - - -

What kind of material is that black piping?

All the white is hard piping (I did that).
The black is 1.5" irrigation hose or something similar. Do people not use that?

The filter and motor are sitting on a concrete pad. It's just in the corner where all the leaves blow and I haven't cleaned it out yet.

If I'm just using the skimmer, water pours in and it definitely swirls around pretty decently in the basket.
If I have the vacuum on, it's much less volume that comes in.

I'm trying to figure out how to define "fill the basket". So maybe the basket does seal properly but there's just too much air in the basket? Shouldn't that eventually make it's way out through the returns though?

 

[Underwhere]

I just watched a video that claimed that unions needed to have teflon tape applied to them. None of mine do.
Is that normal? I thought since there were o-rings that it wasn't necessary.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

The pump could be sucking air in through that irrigation hose, and it will show up as air in the pump basket while the pump is running, and it will cause the bubbles from the returns. The clamps could be loose, allowing air, the irrigation hose could have deteriorated. If the plumbing goes under ground, no, that is not the product that should be used, it's typically the white PVC.

The vacuum will change the volume in the basket somewhat, and if you have a suction side air leak it is definitely more noticeable during vacuuming, the section hoses tend to float on top so the head moves around easily, but they could also allow small amounts of air in as well, which would affect the volume of water in the pump basket.

Is this a buried above ground pool? Or was it installed as an inground? I'm actually suprised to see irrigation hose used like that.... EDIT: did you inherit the pool?

 

[Underwhere]

The pump could be sucking air in through that irrigation hose, and it will show up as air in the pump basket while the pump is running, and it will cause the bubbles from the returns. The clamps could be loose, allowing air, the irrigation hose could have deteriorated. If the plumbing goes under ground, no, that is not the product that should be used, it's typically the white PVC.

The vacuum will change the volume in the basket somewhat, and if you have a suction side air leak it is definitely more noticeable during vacuuming, the section hoses tend to float on top so the head moves around easily, but they could also allow small amounts of air in as well, which would affect the volume of water in the pump basket.

Is this a buried above ground pool? Or was it installed as an inground? I'm actually shocked to see irrigation hose used like that....

Yea I've been trying to figure out this pool for a few years now.
It looks like it's a legit in-ground pool. It seems like there are concrete walls and I think a concrete floor. no main drain.
There's a liner in there. Concrete pad around the top.

It's around 30 years old so I am in the middle of removing the gravel from the sides of the pool and replacing the anti-weed mat and putting some round stone back down. So it looks like a mess right now.
Some of the pics are of the pool before it has cleared up (SLAM method).

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Oh Love pics! They help alot.

I'm going to assume it's the black hose/clamp connections or both. Unfortunately if that black hose has deteriorated and it goes all the way to the skimmer/returns and they are leaking, you might have to dig up the concrete deck to properly plumb the lines...

The white PVC unions you installed are just fine and do not normally need teflon tape because there are o-rings. Did you lube the o-ring area when you installed them? If not I would undo them and lube them too...

 

[Underwhere]

Oh Love pics! They help alot.

I'm going to assume it's the black hose/clamp connections or both. Unfortunately if that black hose has deteriorated and it goes all the way to the skimmer/returns and they are leaking, you might have to dig up the concrete deck to properly plumb the lines...

The white PVC unions you installed are just fine and do not normally need teflon tape because there are o-rings. Did you lube the o-ring area when you installed them? If not I would undo them and lube them too...

Thanks for the info.
I just called a local pool company to come out for some "troubleshooting". Hopefully I can dig under the concrete if need be. There isn't much dirt on top especially now since I've cleared most of the area around the pad.