Variable Speed Pump and Valve Setting Suggestions?

[delrayser]

Good news, everyone! I graduated my PB's pool school this morning. (I look forward to your graduation gifts.) Unfortunately, the course on pump run time was limited to "in the summer, I'd run it at 3000 rpm from about 10 to 6." I know that's not taking advantage of the variable-ness of my Hayward Tristar VS 950, and I'm hoping y'all have some suggestions for me as to speeds and pump run time. I've read through the forum and I understand that most times this gets asked, the answer is "everyone's pool is different." Which I understand, and I'm not scared of fiddling with things a bit, but if y'all can give me a starting point that would be a huge help because I'm lost right now.

I don't have an SWG or a heater, so I know the only reason I need the pump is for circulation and filtering (can be at low speed) and skimming (higher speed). But I have a couple other considerations: I have a Polaris 360 pressure cleaner that isn't on a booster pump, so the pump needs to run high for it to sweep (I assume that will be the same period as when I'm skimming). And the other catch is, we have a waterfall water feature, again run off the main pump, and my wife likes the noise from it so I'd like to at least run the pump high enough during the "low" period to put water out of the waterfall during the daylight hours.

Right now I'm thinking about running at a low speed from 8-8, just high enough to put water out of the waterfall. and then ramping up a couple times a day for a couple hours each, to skim and run the cleaner. Does that sound reasonable? Any ideas on speeds? The pump will operate from 600-3450 rpm, but I just don't know where in there to pick.

And then there's the valves. I don't have any automation (hope to add it someday, but didn't have the budget right now), so the valves going to have to be left in the same place all the time. I also don't know how much I should be diverting to my returns vs. the cleaner/waterfall. See photo below, which is how my PB set it up for his 3000 rpm plan. (FYI, the "Jets" runs to a set of two jet returns on the deep end bench, we only turn those on when the kids want to play in it.)

Would appreciate any suggestions y'all have.

 

[Jimrahbe]

d,

Well, you have a problem with your plumbing layout and lack of automation... Unless you plan to run outside and rotate your valves, which I am sure you are not going to do, then your low speed is going to be a lot more than most.

For reference my pump runs at 1200 RPM most of the time and that is enough flow to run my SWCG and skim the pool. At that speed it costs me about $20 bucks to run the pump 24/7...

If this were my pool I would shut the waterfall off... But it is not... So.. I would play with it and find the lowest speed that would let your waterfall work the way you want. I would use that for my low speed. I would then find the speed necessary to turn the cleaner and use that as my high speed, which I would only run for the time it normally takes to clean the pool. Just another reason I like my Robot...

When we say every pool is different, what we mean is that you will just have to play with things like valve positions and pump speeds to find what works best for you.

If my pool builder had told me that I had to run my pump at 3000 RPM, I would have told him to find a better way to plumb the pool..

You might want to read this... Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time Why do you want to run the pump for so long?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[delrayser]

Thanks Jim. Only reason to run the pump that long is because my wife wants the waterfall noise, and I don't have a booster so I have to run the main pump if the waterfall needs to be on. If I had my druthers, I'd cut back on the waterfall altogether because of the increased evap and aeration. But I'm not the boss…

To be fair to the PB, the PB's designer who sold us on the VS and designed the plumbing said he'd run at 35% 4 hrs, 85% 4 hrs. The actual builder did our pool school and was the one who recommended the 3000rpm for 8 hrs. He also wants us to keep the waterfall off. But again... he ain't the boss, either.

I understand about playing with the speed to find something that runs the waterfall and the Polaris. What I'm having trouble with is how the valves play into that. Obviously I can run my "low" lower at the pump if I put more flow through the waterfall valve and less elsewhere, like to the Polaris. But then I may not have enough to run the Polaris on "high." And I don't know how much I should be diverting to the returns vs the cleaner and waterfall. It looks like the valve is about 45 degrees toward the returns.

Like I said, I'm fine with tweaking things to figure out what works for my pool. But I don't know whether to set the valves first and then tweak the speed, or vice versa.

 

[Jimrahbe]

d,

Your pool builder did you no favors by the way he has things plumbed.. It makes it much harder to do what you want..

I would start by setting the Jandy Return valve so that the handle is pointed toward the Multiport valve.. This way more water is being sent to the cleaner /waterfall side than the return/eyeball side.

I would open the water fall valve all the way and I would also open the cleaner valve all the way.. Ramp the pump up until the waterfall looks like you want it. If the cleaner is moving then I would close the cleaner valve until the cleaner no longer moves. Then, in theory, when you switch to high speed (cleaner) the cleaner will start to work.. and the waterfall will increase but not much you can do about that. As long as your skimmers are working ok, then what else do you need?

I suspect your waterfall will require your pump to run at 2500 or higher. Try it out and tell us what happens..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[delrayser]

I would open the water fall valve all the way and I would also open the cleaner valve all the way.. Ramp the pump up until the waterfall looks like you want it. If the cleaner is moving then I would close the cleaner valve until the cleaner no longer moves. Then, in theory, when you switch to high speed (cleaner) the cleaner will start to work.. and the waterfall will increase but not much you can do about that. As long as your skimmers are working ok, then what else do you need?

This is exactly what I needed - it's so simple when you spell it out, but sitting there staring at the valves tonight, I was baffled. Thanks! Will give it a go tomorrow and report back.

Your pool builder did you no favors by the way he has things plumbed.. It makes it much harder to do what you want.

Again, in my PB's defense, I don't think my wife ever told the designer that we wanted the waterfall running all the time when we asked for the design. It should work fine the way he wanted us to run it, with only the cleaner valve open all the time and the waterfall just for occasional use, right?

Just for kicks, how would you have plumbed the system better to do what my wife wants it to do? Put a booster pump on the waterfall line?

 

[delrayser]

Update: I played around with the valves and speeds a bit this morning following your suggestions. I was afraid yesterday to divert any water away from the returns, but once I set that jandy valve to favor the waterfall/cleaner and opened the cleaner and waterfall valves fully, I was able to set my low (waterfall) speed to 1250rpm and my high (cleaner/skimmer) to 3000. I'm going to try running it on high from 9-10 am and 2-3 pm and low the rest of the time, by my math that's just over 5 kWh a day so not too bad. Hopefully the 2 hrs on high will be enough to clear the surface even with the returns diminished a little, it's not a huge pool.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[jblizzle]

Honestly, I would ditch the pressure cleaner and get a robot. Perhaps you could sell the cleaner at a decent price (since it is basically new). Then you would not need to run the pump that high very much at all saving you electrical money and offsetting the purchase of the robot.

- - - Updated - - -

If you had a 3-way valve on the waterfall line, then you could add automation to turn it on and off with the pump speed changes.

 

[Jimrahbe]

D,

Sounds good to me... And if it does not work, just keep adjusting it until you are happy..

Thanks,

Jim R.