Vaccum to fillter not to waste

[amin36]

Hi

In some pools that i visit there are galvanized sand filters instead of ordinary sand filters and unfortunately they don't have waste option.the plumbing can be changed so that we vaccum to waste,but
is it ok to vaccum to sand filter through skimmer and then backwash the filter to clean the filter?

Thanks

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Absolutely... You can use a skimmer plate over the skimmer basket from above the deck straight down, or one that the hose goes in thru the weir door. The largest debris will be caught in the skimmer basket.

https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SP1106-Skim-Ground-Skimmer/dp/B003ZTF8HS

 

[amin36]

@YippeeSkippy Thank you.very good information!

 

[amin36]

@YippeeSkippy How about for a DE filter?what about a cartridge filter?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I believe it will work the same way. The large stuff is stopped by the skimmer basket, but some will probably get stopped by the pump basket the rest by the filter.

 

[Woody007]

I believe it will work the same way. The large stuff is stopped by the skimmer basket, but some will probably get stopped by the pump basket the rest by the filter.

Is there a way to slow down the flow rate (single speed pump) so I can go over the entire bottom without removing too much water from the pool?

 

[Darin]

If you do not have a ball valve downstream of your pump discharge you can add one and then throttle it do reduce flow. Throttling your pump will reduce your vacuum.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Is there a way to slow down the flow rate (single speed pump) so I can go over the entire bottom without removing too much water from the pool?

I'd ditch the manual vacuuming and get a robot. It won't remove any water and cleans far, far better with no effort on your part.

 

[Woody007]

I'd ditch the manual vacuuming and get a robot. It won't remove any water and cleans far, far better with no effort on your part.

I should have mentioned that I want to do this at opening in the spring to remove the Crud from the winter. I wanted to get it off the bottom before it got all stirred up by the robot. The pool company uses a stand-alone pump that works great and I wanted to see what I could do with what I have already.

 

[1poolman1]

Is there a way to slow down the flow rate (single speed pump) so I can go over the entire bottom without removing too much water from the pool?

If you do decide to put a valve after the pump, or filter, to throttle the flow (very dangerous if not very careful) you run the risk of "dead heading" the system which can cause serious damage to the equipment and serious bodily harm if a filter, or pump, decides to blow (yes, it happens). If nothing else, the increase in head a valve in that position can cause can force water past the shaft seal and damage the motor.

 

[Darin]

I disagree. Throttling does not affect pump or impeller. Deadheading does affect pumps as the seals will heat up and be destroyed.
Do not dead head and you will be fine. If throttling was a problem then process plants would have gone broke about 90 years ago.

Yes, i have years of experience in waste water and process plants throttling pumps. This is not dangerous as our little pool pumps do not blow up.
Deadhead will heat up the seals until they leak really bad then they wont prime on restart.

 

[1poolman1]

I disagree. Throttling does not affect pump or impeller. Deadheading does affect pumps as the seals will heat up and be destroyed.
Do not dead head and you will be fine. If throttling was a problem then process plants would have gone broke about 90 years ago.

Yes, i have years of experience in waste water and process plants throttling pumps. This is not dangerous as our little pool pumps do not blow up.
Deadhead will heat up the seals until they leak really bad then they wont prime on restart.

While I agree that in a professional setting with trained operators like yourself who have experience with the system, because it is their job to do it right, might have no problem using extremely heavy duty, likely cast metal of some sort, equipment that can handle and may be designed for the abuse, a residential pool owner, who might look at his or her pool equipment once or twice a month should exercise extreme caution when playing with the output of a pump with a valve in the return line or between the pump and filter. If you've ever seen what happens to the sealplate on a residential pump, or the filter tank on a residential filter, with a throttling valve, you would understand. They are not designed for that type of use

If you have never seen or heard the results of a pump sealplate split or actually "explode" (fortunately it was under a house), separation-tank lid blow off, filter lid split or blow off, two-year old pump on a waterfall with the bearings screaming because it had to be throttled so far the water was blowing past the seal, you don't see that there is no connection between the two, a commercial plant and a residential pool.

Pool owners hurt themselves, mostly their finances, by damaging their equipment all the time, unfortunately, because they don't realize just how dangerous this stuff can be. Part of my job, as I have always seen it, is to protect the owners from themselves. Therefore, my warning it can be damaging and dangerous if not very careful. Also, unfortunately, "I want to vacuum to waste but not waste water," is a contradiction. Throttle the flow out and you get less suction, meaning you are vacuuming longer and using (wasting) a similar amount of water.

 

[Darin]

Again, throttling does not destroy seals or bearings. If the seal leaks it will take out bearing. If a bearing goes bad and heats up it can take out a seal. Throttling a pump does not slow down the water enough to heat up the water to take out a bearing or seal.
Throttling can not and does not destroy a sealplate even in a plastic homeowner pump. However deadheading can due to the high temperature, eventual cavitation and dry moving pump chamber from destroyed seal.
leaking seal = screaming bearing.
Put a gauge ahead of the valve throttle it and deadhead it. Let me know how high you can get it. Not high enough to hurt when throttling.

Anyway this is a differnt subject then what he was wanting to do, which did not make sense to reduce the vacuum on his pump.

 

[1poolman1]

Again, throttling does not destroy seals or bearings. If the seal leaks it will take out bearing. If a bearing goes bad and heats up it can take out a seal. Throttling a pump does not slow down the water enough to heat up the water to take out a bearing or seal.
Throttling can not and does not destroy a sealplate even in a plastic homeowner pump. However deadheading can due to the high temperature, eventual cavitation and dry moving pump chamber from destroyed seal.
leaking seal = screaming bearing.
Put a gauge ahead of the valve throttle it and deadhead it. Let me know how high you can get it. Not high enough to hurt when throttling.

Anyway this is a differnt subject then what he was wanting to do, which did not make sense to reduce the vacuum on his pump.

Apparently, there is a misunderstanding in what was said. Quote, "If you do decide to put a valve after the pump, or filter, to throttle the flow (very dangerous if not very careful) you run the risk of "dead heading" the system which can cause serious damage to the equipment and serious bodily harm . . ." and, " If nothing else, the increase in head a valve in that position can cause can force water past the shaft seal and damage the motor." Not sure where the argument is. Underestimating "our little pool pumps" can get you hurt.

 

[amin36]

Is there a way to slow down the flow rate (single speed pump) so I can go over the entire bottom without removing too much water from the pool?

So you can put the filter on the filter mode and vaccum to the filter.therefore all the crud goes in the sand filter and you will not lose any water.(DO NOT forget to use skimmer plate to catch the large debris in the skimmer)
After vaccuming you can backwash the filter and clean it!

 

[Woody007]

So you can put the filter on the filter mode and vaccum to the filter.therefore all the crud goes in the sand filter and you will not lose any water.(DO NOT forget to use skimmer plate to catch the large debris in the skimmer)
After vaccuming you can backwash the filter and clean it!

I didn't mention that I have a DE filter, so backwash is a little more involved with adding DE back to the filter. Seems like my best bet is to setup an external pump that I can control.
How about a VS pump? I could turn down the RPM on that and be able to control the flow. That would be another reason for me to upgrade my single speed pump.

 

[1poolman1]

I didn't mention that I have a DE filter, so backwash is a little more involved with adding DE back to the filter. Seems like my best bet is to setup an external pump that I can control.
How about a VS pump? I could turn down the RPM on that and be able to control the flow. That would be another reason for me to upgrade my single speed pump.

You can never go wrong adding a VSP.

 

[amin36]

I didn't mention that I have a DE filter, so backwash is a little more involved with adding DE back to the filter. Seems like my best bet is to setup an external pump that I can control.
How about a VS pump? I could turn down the RPM on that and be able to control the flow. That would be another reason for me to upgrade my single speed pump.

I belive if you use a VSP and set that on a low speed while vaccuming you will not have sufficant power/suction while vaccuming to remove the debris to the filter or in severe cases of debris to waste!