using twice as much chlorine this summer

[questa macchina]

Have not Posted in 7 years as things have been going swimmingly (sorry - just couldn't resist) since a successful battle with the dreaded CYA

Have been pretty much adding same amount of liquid chlorine and acid when (PH gets high 7.5+) brushing on occasion and find that this summer have needed to add about twice as much chlorine (HAAS 12.5%) to get FC numbers up (2-3+) testing an hour after my AM adding of chlorine and keep both green and black algae at bay.

What is sunlight effect on the pool's chemistry - a long v. hot summer with multiple days in triple digits and less shade than in normal years (our monsoon is mostly non existent now 3+ weeks after its traditional start with just spits and dribbles)

solutions suggestions would be most appreciated - I have the TF100 test kit which served me well getting rid of the aforementioned CYA

Thanks ever so much
questa macchina

 

[Sunnydaze]

To clarify, are you saying it's taking twice as much chlorine to get the desired increase? If so, the liquid chlorine is probably degraded by storage conditions and/or age. If you're just losing a lot more chlorine daily, check cya level and do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test.

 

[questa macchina]

Thanks a bunch - - Back to (pool) school I go .. it's been a while - great to see the app now - stay tuned - will post again when things get back in line

 

[SJPoe]

Is it possible you have a bad batch that was left out on a pallet at the store in that 100+ degree weather ? You can lose up to 25% of the effectiveness in as little as a week at those temps.

I had a couple bottles of old pool shock left by the previous owner - they barely had any free chlorine at all. I now check the date code when buying, and then store in the well-room in the basement, where it is a steady 62F all year round

 

[questa macchina]

definitely the heat both at the store and my storage - Yikes .. learn something every day -- moving my CL into some air conditioning and purchasing from another vendor who I believe has all theirs stored inside inside

 

[questa macchina]

OCLT 7:30 PM last night = 8ppm 6:50 AM this morning = 4ppm
if i read correctly this means SLAM CITY
will have to check CYA and PH and get some fresh chlorine likely this weekend
the supplier that keeps the HAAS 12.4% chorine inside wants $11 and change a gallon - is that outrageous - seems so to me the other supplier is like $8.50 - wondering what it is like in other parts of the world

again thanks you all

 

[SJPoe]

OCLT 7:30 PM last night = 8ppm 6:50 AM this morning = 4ppm
if i read correctly this means SLAM CITY

Certainly would seem that way. 4PPM is a lot overnight.

will have to check CYA and PH and get some fresh chlorine likely this weekend
the supplier that keeps the HAAS 12.4% chorine inside wants $11 and change a gallon - is that outrageous - seems so to me the other supplier is like $8.50 - wondering what it is like in other parts of the world

1gal @ 12.5 @ $8.50 = $0.54/oz

I pay $3.99/gal for 12.5% at the local Menards - with an 11% rebate, so I get $0.43 back per bottle (eventually) so net is $3.56 +/- a cent. - $0.223/oz

I'd look around (and not necessarily in pool stores). Looks like Home Depot in Tuscon AZ has 2gal packs of 10% for $10, which is $0.39/oz (significantly cheaper than 0.54 - HDX 1 Gal. Pool-Care Chlorinating Liquid (2-Pack) 20128HDX )

 

[proavia]

OCLT 7:30 PM last night = 8ppm 6:50 AM this morning = 4ppm
if i read correctly this means SLAM CITY
will have to check CYA and PH and get some fresh chlorine likely this weekend
the supplier that keeps the HAAS 12.4% chorine inside wants $11 and change a gallon - is that outrageous - seems so to me the other supplier is like $8.50 - wondering what it is like in other parts of the world

again thanks you all

Is E-konomy Pools close to you?
I believe they have Hasa chlorine in the refillable 4 packs.
The Hasa plant is in Eloy, so the local supply is usually fresh.
You pay a refundable deposit on the 4 jugs and carry crate.

 

[questa macchina]

in preparation for SLAM find the PH is around 7.5 ok yes?

CYA is coming back <20ppm totally clear to top of tube 2 tests

Back story: in May of 2015 - 7 years ago when we had trouble with CYA (> 100 ) i remember incrementally emptying pool down to just below bottom of skimmer and refilling and then as we entered our summer monsoon emptying much water and funneling roof rain water via diverting downspout. (6" of rain gave us approx. 6k gallons of water into the pool)

no CYA added in those intervening 6 years just liquid chlorine and acid

Issue one: is my 0013 reagent expired (implying a false reading)? - however reading here that (May 1 2020 wiki) "Finally R-0013 (CYA) ... indestructible unless you inadvertently contaminate it" I'm thinking that it is not expired unless someone can direct me otherwise?

Issue concern 2: Reading here (and via the TTF 100 test kit instructions) that an ideal CYA should be around 40-50 and per pool math on app i should add 70 oz dry vs 182 oz liquid - dry seem less expensive - any thoughts recommendations regarding application time process, i.e., can i dilute the dry crystals in H20 for example, when to take readings etc.?

Cost of chlorine have used price compare on the APP (again thanks to who ever put it together) and the HD 10% beats the HASA 12.5% liquid chlorine $0.39 / oz. vs $.685 /oz Informed consumer (on some things)

Thanks again for you assistance

 

[mknauss]

is my 0013 reagent expired (implying a false reading)?

Not likely, very stable. Unless it has been frozen or other wise contaminated.

dry seem less expensive

Yes. Use the sock method to add to pool.
Add the CYA by using what we call the sock method. Get an old sock (no holes) and put the measured amount of CYA you need. Tie the sock closed and either suspend it in front of a return (hang it from your brush pole works with something weighted on the deck) OR if it still allows flow thru the skimmer, place the sock in the skimmer. Every 15/20 minutes give the sock a squeeze to speed up the process. Please DO NOT follow the directions on the container of CYA to just pour it into the skimmer and don't just toss the sock in the pool as the CYA is acidic and can bleach/stain pool finishes.

 

[proavia]

^^^^^^^^ - what Marty said......

Before adding chlorine to start a SLAM Process, ph to 7.2 and increase CYA to 30 if it's below 30.

After your SLAM Process, suggest you increase CYA to 50 to help slow chlorine burnoff from the sun. Use the FC/CYA Levels to dose FC according to your CYA.

NEVER, EVER let the FC fall below minimum.

 

[questa macchina]

Not likely, very stable. Unless it has been frozen or other wise contaminated.

Yes. Use the sock method to add to pool.
Add the CYA by using what we call the sock method. Get an old sock (no holes) and put the measured amount of CYA you need. Tie the sock closed and either suspend it in front of a return (hang it from your brush pole works with something weighted on the deck) OR if it still allows flow thru the skimmer, place the sock in the skimmer. Every 15/20 minutes give the sock a squeeze to speed up the process. Please DO NOT follow the directions on the container of CYA to just pour it into the skimmer and don't just toss the sock in the pool as the CYA is acidic and can bleach/stain pool finishes.

cool - test Kit has remained on bookcase for years waiting for it's time in the sun
sadly most of my socks have holes in them

 

[questa macchina]

START O SLAM
added 4 lbs of dry stabilizer yesterday afternoon via sock method in 2 @ 2 lb doses squeezing the sock to move things along.. - this AM CYA was just about 30 (rounded down to 20) Per calc on APP added 1lb 4oz.again via sock method

• at 10:45 once complete the CYA goes to 42 adding CHL per app (1 gal 3 qts of 12%)
• at 11:45 next CL reading: FC= 12, CC=2, TC = 14
• app recommends SLAM target of 17 add 2 quarts 2 cups of 12%
• At 13:45 2 hours later cl reading: FC= 26 CC= 2 and TC = 28 APP "there is no recommended chemical to lower FC levels" exposure to sun??
• during this period had big wind (but no rain) and lots of leaves etc which have been netted out maybe a quart+ volume wise in the skimmer basket
• At 15:15 FC = 15.5, CC 2.5 TC = 18 add 24 oz of 12%

QUESTIONS
"SLAM is done when CC is 0.5 or lower" (seems like may be going backward) - thoughts? - recommendations
should i be thinking about doing an Over night test?
Thanks a bunch for all your help

 

[mknauss]

CYA goes to 42

Round up to 50, SLAM level FC is 20 ppm.
Continue testing FC, adding liquid chlorine back to SLAM level every few hours. Brush pool well at least once a day.

When pool water is crystal clear, and no debris (dead algae), then do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

 

[questa macchina]

SLAM o RAMA
17:15 yesterday afternoon FC = 22.5, CC=0, TC = 22.5
19:15 last night FC = 19, CC = .5, TC = 0
05:45 this AM FC = 20, CC = 0, and TC = 20

Had brushed a bit yesterday - just swim outs and stairs (the usual spots for blooms)

Does this not meet criteria for SLAM being done? or am I missing something? other than running out of r-0871

 

[mknauss]

Is pool crystal clear with no dead algae debris?

 

[questa macchina]

best i can tell looks pretty good - algae wise had only the "occasional bloom (under coping, in corners of swim outs) and as noted the black spots black algae which have been working on with the SS brush - reading here will be something will have to maintain higher CL and vigilance

of note have made for myself a daily weekly "pool to do" list starting from list found here and added to it. Truth is had gotten into a bit of laziness thinking that the pool needed less attention than it deserved - lesson learned

Thanks a bunch

 

[mknauss]

best i can tell looks pretty good

Stay at the SLAM. The pool water should sparkle and you should be able to call heads or tails on a quarter in the deep end.

 

[geh]

Sounds like you have the experts guiding you on the CYA level and SLAM. I can tell you this about liquid chlorine and prices. I was using liquid chlorine and earlier this year the manufacture date was 8 months old. When a fresh lot came in that was 2 months old, I got exactly double the return from the fresher chlorine. This was based on daily measurements and precise testing with Taylor DPD tests. So the old chlorine had degraded by 50%. It didn't help that the warehouse of my pool store was very hot.

Likewise, the price of liquid chlorine went from $3.00/gallon to $7.00/gallon over the last 1.5 years, and I was told to expect another price increase. Between the chlorine that had degraded 50% and the current price, I was in effect paying $14.00/gallon. Since then, I bought a CircuPool SWG, and never looked back. Economically, now is the time to make that switch and generate your own chlorine. My cost was $1,500 for the SWG, about $40 for the salt, and $150 for a plumber to install (you can do it yourself but mine was a difficult fit). I expect to recoup that money in the first year or two. It is a futile process to keep adding liquid chlorine daily, and with the SWG you have much more precise and consistent chlorine levels, and a lot less anxiety about maintaining your water. Not to mention the saltwater feels great. I wish I had done this three years ago.

 

[questa macchina]

Stay at the SLAM. The pool water should sparkle and you should be able to call heads or tails on a quarter in the deep end.

at 8'+ the deepest could not make it out - however with binoculars at 6'0 it's Heads - probably could have seen a 1/2 dollar or a Silver dollar ... can you spare some change?