Using home automation to control Raypak heater

[wayner]

Last year I switched my pool heater to a Raypak R266A. I appear to have the millivolt version rather than the digital version I want to use my Home Automation system (Control4) to flip a relay to turn the heater on and off. (I will also use a relay to control the pump but that is a different issue).

This heater has a fireman's switch and also three wires for remote control. On a bundle of three wires it says 'WHERE NECESSARY ADD"POOL/SPA REMOTE" SWITCH HERE'.

In the manual it says

The heaters are equipped with the ability to work with external remote controls. The supplied 7-pin remote wiring connector supplies power out to either a toggle switch or the switch contacts of a third-party remote. The remote works by either making or breaking the circuit created by the remote wiring. Typically, a remote does not supply power to the heater, it only provides a switching function to turn the heater On or Off.

So the way I plan to do this is to connect a relay between the Pool common (Black/Orange) and the 24VAC Hot (Blue). When the circuit is Open then the heater will be off, when it is closed it will be on. Is that the correct way to do it? When I have the system set up in this way can I still adjust the temperature or is the heater assuming that a remote control will do this?


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[ajw22]

This heater has a fireman's switch and also three wires for remote control. On a bundle of three wires it says 'WHERE NECESSARY ADD"POOL/SPA REMOTE" SWITCH HERE'.

When you use the firemans switch it just turns the heater on and off. The automation can provide thermostat control or the heater will heat up to its control panel set point. The heater set point establishes the maximum yempertaure the heater will run to. Automation can provide temperature control below the heater set point.

So the way I plan to do this is to connect a relay between the Pool common (Black/Orange) and the 24VAC Hot (Blue). When the circuit is Open then the heater will be off, when it is closed it will be on. Is that the correct way to do it?

Yes, that is bacially identical control tot he firemans switch. The only difference in using the 3 wire control is you have two temperature settings the heater can follow.

When I have the system set up in this way can I still adjust the temperature or is the heater assuming that a remote control will do this?

Pool common or firemans switch uses the POOL set point.

Spa common will use the SPA set point.

 

[wayner]

Thanks @ajw22 . Just to clarify, I will only be connecting the heater to a relay that I can flip on and off. So although automation could adjust the heat I imagine I would need a special type of remote control to do so, and I don't plan on hooking it up to a remote control. So since I am only needing an on/off switch are there any differences between using the Firemans switch or the pool common? I still want to be able to use the buttons on the LCD panel on the heater to adjust the heat level. And if I use the Fireman's switch do I just connect that Red Fireman's switch wire to the pool common?

As an aside - why is it so bloody expensive to automate a pool system. It seems to cost about $1000 to automate any sort of pool stuff. But I don't understand why that is so hard as the hardware is cheap - in theory you could do this with a $35 Raspberry Pi.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks @ajw22 . Just to clarify, I will only be connecting the heater to a relay that I can flip on and off. So although automation could adjust the heat I imagine I would need a special type of remote control to do so, and I don't plan on hooking it up to a remote control. So since I am only needing an on/off switch are there any differences between using the Firemans switch or the pool common? I still want to be able to use the buttons on the LCD panel on the heater to adjust the heat level.

Have you read pages 30-32 in http://cdn.globalimageserver.com/FetchDocument.aspx?ID=c404f1c5-ac50-4209-9457-56246d010b20

It explains how you take the heater in and out of remote mode.

And if I use the Fireman's switch do I just connect that Red Fireman's switch wire to the pool common?

NO!!! The firemans switch is just a wire thatgives continuity to the circuit. When open it is OFF, when connected the heater is ON. The wires just connect to a relay that completes the connection.

As an aside - why is it so bloody expensive to automate a pool system. It seems to cost about $1000 to automate any sort of pool stuff. But I don't understand why that is so hard as the hardware is cheap - in theory you could do this with a $35 Raspberry Pi.

Hardware is cheap. Getting it marketed, distributed, sold to the end user, and supported is expensive.

 

[wayner]

Yes, I have read those pages and I am pretty sure that what I want is from page 31 - 2-Wire Remote Control (On-Off) part 2 as my "remote" does not have a sensor. And since I am only using the pool and not the spa then I believe the steps are as follows:

1. Set the pool setting to my desired temperature (say 85)
2. Connect the Pool Common (Blk/Orn pin 1) and 24VAC Hot (Blu Pin 3) to the relay.
3. Switch to remote mode by pressing and holding both up and down arrows for several seconds.

But I am still not sure why one uses this option rather than the Time Clock/Fireman's Switch option on the bottom of page 31? And I am not sure if step 1 (above) implies that I cannot change the temperature without taking it out of remote mode. So if that is the case then why not use the Fireman's switch? And if you use the Fireman's switch then I assume that you do not need to change to Remote Model.

 

[ajw22]

I don't understand why you don't use the firemans switch connection first and see how the heater acts.

Either way you are trying to use the heater a bit differently then designed and the designers did not make your use case simple.

 

[wayner]

I will do that. Worst case scenario is that I just twist the wires back together.

 

[cmc0619]

I have the 406A version of this heater and I'm using the automation controls to flip between SPA heat and Pool heat. You can't adjust the temp controls from the panel while in that mode. Automation isn't able to adjust the Spa/Pool setpoints. It's a manual PITA, I mean, manual process

I agree with Allen if you're just wanting to turn the heater on and off then leave it turned 'on' at the heater, set your temp and use the fireman switch to control it from your relay. You get the added benefit of being able to just walk up to it and adjust the heat setpoint without all the rigamarole of taking it out of automation mode, setting a new temp and then re-enabling automation mode.

Also, you have the digital version. Millivolt has a K on the end instead of an A and has no mechanism for an automation mode. An easy way to tell is if you're running power to the heater it's not a millivolt, they power themselves by generating electricity from a burning pilot.

 

[wayner]

Thanks. I do have the digital version. Last night I cut the red Fireman's switch wire and played around with that. That works in the way that I want so there is no need to play around with the remote control connections. I will use that method to control the heater - I just need to run some wiring to my home automation controller. But no point in heating things up yet as it is getting very cold in the next few days below 0C lows on Friday and Saturday. I need some of the negatively priced WTI so that someone can pay me to heat my pool (not that I use oil anyhow ).

 

[hg901]

Thanks. I do have the digital version. Last night I cut the red Fireman's switch wire and played around with that. That works in the way that I want so there is no need to play around with the remote control connections. I will use that method to control the heater - I just need to run some wiring to my home automation controller. But no point in heating things up yet as it is getting very cold in the next few days below 0C lows on Friday and Saturday. I need some of the negatively priced WTI so that someone can pay me to heat my pool (not that I use oil anyhow ).

How's it working for you? I was thinking about doing the same thing for control by my automation panel (Elk M1) so that I can just ask Alexa to heat the pool when I know that I am going to be using it soon. Do you just cut that fireman switch and connect both ends of that loop to a relay?

 

[wayner]

That is what you do - cut the loop and attach to a relay. After you cut you can test this just be touching and removing the wires. So that part is working well to turn the heater on and off. But the main reason to do this is to have a better timer for the pump that is connected into my HA system which requires a heavy duty relay to switch the pump. My electrician is MIA on this but I hope to get it done soon.