UPDATE with test results!! Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

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doc8404

doc8404

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Sep 13, 2015
473
Rome, NY
I am hoping I am worried about nothing.

This Year I decided to leave the skimmer cover off and eyeball plug out. Winter cover is on.
More water keeps going on top of the cover as snow and some rain (but not enough of the latter to pump off) that of course forces more water out of the pool.

1) can it force enough out where it will be so low that the pool could freeze and damage the pool?

2) what options do I have now? Should I just peel back the cover and install the eye plug and skimmer cover (cover leaked slightly last year and had a big chunk of ice as it dropped out.)

Going to suck replacing around 5k of water in the spring but I'm worried more about damage and what I should do now.

Thanks.
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

Well, after sticking my hand in that water, it doesn't matter much.
Doubt I can stand it long enough to screw the eyeball plug in.
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

I don't think you have a problem. You do have your plumbing disconnected correct? In a cold climate you can't have water sitting the skimmer, it will freeze and break the skimmer.

I always remove my plumbing lines and store my pump and filter inside safe from freezing, pump the pool down a couple inches below the return fitting, remove the eyeball jet and cover the pool. I never plug the return or cover the skimmer hole. Any water that gets on top of the cover will add to the overall level of the pool. If enough accumulates on top of the cover it will begin to displace the pool water under the cover and cause water to drain out through the return hole or skimmer. As long as the pool level does not get so low that the cover begins pulling on the walls it will be fine. Half full would be enough to keep the liner in place and the pool walls supported, but if the cover gets a lot of water on top and displaces significant amounts of water from the pool it will begin to pull inward on the walls. My pool is frozen pretty much solid by now so loosening the cover would be the only option.
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

Leave it alone. The pool is doing what it's supposed to do. It's sleeping. You're going to lose water due to excess water accumulating on the cover.
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

doc8404 said:
This Year I decided to leave the skimmer cover off and eyeball plug out. Winter cover is on.
More water keeps going on top of the cover as snow and some rain (but not enough of the latter to pump off) that of course forces more water out of the pool.

1) can it force enough out where it will be so low that the pool could freeze and damage the pool?

2) what options do I have now? Should I just peel back the cover and install the eye plug and skimmer cover (cover leaked slightly last year and had a big chunk of ice as it dropped out.)

Going to suck replacing around 5k of water in the spring but I'm worried more about damage and what I should do now.
Click to expand...

1) Not really. Depending on the pool cover you have, it will likely fall off the walls and into the pool before it displaces enough water to be an issue. Your pool water WILL freeze and that's normal. This freezing alone will not damage the pool. This is why you need to drop the water level below the skimmer & return. So that when the water does freeze, it doesn't damage these parts. In reality you shouldn't plug the return either. Just leave it open so that any displaced water can just flow out of it and the water never get above this level.

2) You have the best option available, do nothing. nothing needs to be done except monitor the amount of water on the cover and remove any water above 4" in depth. This is to prevent the cover from sagging too much. Some water is needed to prevent the cover from flying in the wind. I wouldn't use the plug nor skimmer cover. They will just cause more issues than they are worth.

Water replacement in the spring is just a part of the process. If you are on city water, many localities give a sewer discount for pool refills. My local give a once a year discount (no sewer fee) for a pool refill.


recently with this heat wave, my frozen pool thawed and let the cover sag into the water to much. I had to pump the cover off, about a thousand gallons, and then refill some into the pool to bring the water level back up to keep the cover from sagging to low.

.
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

dsmith99 said:
I don't think you have a problem. You do have your plumbing disconnected correct? In a cold climate you can't have water sitting the skimmer, it will freeze and break the skimmer.

I always remove my plumbing lines and store my pump and filter inside safe from freezing, pump the pool down a couple inches below the return fitting, remove the eyeball jet and cover the pool. I never plug the return or cover the skimmer hole. Any water that gets on top of the cover will add to the overall level of the pool. If enough accumulates on top of the cover it will begin to displace the pool water under the cover and cause water to drain out through the return hole or skimmer. As long as the pool level does not get so low that the cover begins pulling on the walls it will be fine. Half full would be enough to keep the liner in place and the pool walls supported, but if the cover gets a lot of water on top and displaces significant amounts of water from the pool it will begin to pull inward on the walls. My pool is frozen pretty much solid by now so loosening the cover would be the only option.
Click to expand...

getting nervous now. Cover becoming pretty tight. Wife not happy. Won't do this again!
i am trying to have faith in the Radiant pool design integrity.
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

If the cover is pulling hard on the walls then you need to do something. If the water on top of the cover is frozen then you don't have much choice, you need to loosen the cover up. It will be far better to take the cover loose and deal with whatever gets in the pool rather than let the walls get pulled in. If you have standing water on top or you are expecting warm weather that will do some melting then you need to get the standing water pumped off as soon as you can. Any time I get warm weather in the winter months I get the pump out and remove whatever water I can from the top of the cover.

The pool itself is likely frozen pretty much solid this time of year so it's doubtful the cover is going to sink any further until spring thaw. When you installed the cover it should not have been tight, it should have just loosely draped over the sides and laid on top of the water. I tie an air pillow in the middle to keep the center of the cover up, this allows water and any debris to collect all the way around the pool rather than sink in the middle.

Can you post a pic or two of how the pool looks now?
 

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Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

First time for me leaving a pool up all winter too. All I did was pull the plumbing of and drained a few inches below the skimmer. Didnt really matter though we had a ton of rain this winter in between snow bursts so it ended up filling and flowing out the bottom of the skimmer between freezes.
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

Cover is getting tighter.
Water on top is frozen solid so I can't pump.
Just got 8" of heavy wet snow.
Water still pouring out eyeball.
tried pulling cover out of groove, can't budge it.
SUCKS.
Hard to remove this cover from the groove on a good day.
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

pumping today! THICK layer of ice on the cover....but there was a large hole that melted in it! Hope to get the plug back in with the rainy season coming...cover is much lower and therefore pushed much more water out than we thought!
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

Plug is in. Water now 2" below but ready for rain.
Figured I might as well test


10/16 closing
pH 7.5
FC 9.5
CC 0.0
TA 40

2/25
pH 7.2-7.5 tough to tell
FC 7.0
CC 0.0
TA 90

Looks good to me. After wasting a LOT of water from the cover and onto the lawn, I put a few hundred gallons from the cover into the pool. Now adding water slowly using softened water.
Slightly worried about iron.

- - - Updated - - -

dsmith99 said:
If the cover is pulling hard on the walls then you need to do something. If the water on top of the cover is frozen then you don't have much choice, you need to loosen the cover up. It will be far better to take the cover loose and deal with whatever gets in the pool rather than let the walls get pulled in. If you have standing water on top or you are expecting warm weather that will do some melting then you need to get the standing water pumped off as soon as you can. Any time I get warm weather in the winter months I get the pump out and remove whatever water I can from the top of the cover.

The pool itself is likely frozen pretty much solid this time of year so it's doubtful the cover is going to sink any further until spring thaw. When you installed the cover it should not have been tight, it should have just loosely draped over the sides and laid on top of the water. I tie an air pillow in the middle to keep the center of the cover up, this allows water and any debris to collect all the way around the pool rather than sink in the middle.

Can you post a pic or two of how the pool looks now?
Click to expand...


You pull the big heavy sand filter and put inside?
 
Re: Northeast freezing pool and maybe incorrect closing

doc8404 said:
You pull the big heavy sand filter and put inside?
Click to expand...

No, I have a DE filter so it's light and easy to move. When I had a sand filter I pulled the valve off the top and stored it and the pump inside. For the rest of it I removed the drain cap and covered up the filter housing with a heavy duty bag.
 
Are you using the radiant winter cover? We used a standard winter cover last year and didn't have any issues with water leaking. This year, we used the radiant cover and water is leaking out through the skimmer box and return. We have a plate screwed onto the skimmer box inside the pool and plugged the return.
 
Yes. We only have the radiant cover. Last year, I drained it below the skimmer, took off all the plumbing and inserted the return plug. Had a really slow leak through the return Eye last year. But I left the valve open so it wouldn't freeze solid. No issues last year.
 
You can see the ice build up in my thread from a few months ago Well, something went wrong

I was much better off with the regular cover and pillow. It was a pain to put on, but I have so much more water to replace this year and I may need a new skimmer box as well. I'm going to have to keep draining the water from the cover because the water in the pool is no longer supporting most of the cover.
 
Only bad part for us this year is having to replace so much water. It appears many people on the site don't even use plugs and just let the water pour out the return opening. That is what I did this year. I think it is even safer for us with a radiant pool than others, in regards to the wall strength and the cover pulling it in.

Last year i also also used a slimmer plate and drained the water below the skimmer. However, snow and rain on top of the cover kept pushing water out and I had quite an icicle hanging from the skimmer. However, since there was no pipe attached there was no issue.
 
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