UPDATE- Got new Ozone Generator- Bullfrog Spa leaking at Ozone Generator when power is Off

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tnthudson

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Mar 31, 2008
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Central VA
Hello again, I had a thread earlier about the GFCI to my Bullfrog Spa tripping (it's a new spa), and I am still waiting for my LPB to check it out- not entirely their fault, I put them off due to sickness.
At any rate, when the GFCI trips lately I've noticed that if it's off for any length of time, I see leakage around my spa.
I took the front cover off once again and saw that it appears that the Ozone Generator is leaking up at the top (where I'm pointing with the screwdriver, the clear looking little cover).
When I turn the power back On, the leak stops immediately from what I can tell.
Is that normal? Or am I looking at a bad Ozone generator?
Thanks as always.IMG_4778.jpg
 
That's the air inlet, and there should never be water coming out, only air sucking in when the pump (or optional circulator pump) is running. I would think that is a failed check valve on the other side that is supposed to prevent water from backing up into the ozone generator. If water backs up into it, it shorts out the Corona Discharge cells (there are two in series) that generate the ozone from ambient air. That should trip the GFCI since the water is a path to ground. Probably a warranty claim given a new tub. Over time those check-valves can fail, so they're an item to regularly inspect. Ozone gas is pretty hard on plastics.

On this system, the other source for a little bit of water pooling in the bottom of the cabinet is the discharge tube from the Ozone destruction activated carbon cartridge. The tube coming out the bottom of that was just hanging out on the cabinet floor. Although the floor is plastic, I didn't like the idea of even a little bit of condensate inside the cabinet, so drilled a hole and routed it out the bottom of the cabinet. I don't ever want to look inside the equipment bay and have to sort out between normal and abnormal water puddles... plus that would add to humidity levels inside the cabinet where the ozonator gets its ambient air from... moist air is not conducive to making ozone.
 
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I think you just found the cause of your tripping breaker too.

You said the breaker never trips when you are using the spa. The ozone generator does not run when you are using the spa - if you do anything from the control panel - turn on lights, jets, music, etc the spa assumes you are in it and it does not generate ozone.

When the spa runs jet pump 1, or the circulator pump either because it is calling for heat, or because it is in a filter cycle, then it triggers the ozone generator.

If your backflow valve is leaking, and now your discharge plates are shorting, that will trip the GFCI.

If it is a very slow leak, it would not be enough to trip things when they wet tested it at the factory, After a long enough time, it got enough water in it to start causing the breaker trip when the generator cycles on.
 
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IMG_4786.jpg

OK, so my LPB was able to come out and did apparently agree with the assessments in this thread that the Ozone Generator was bad in my new Bullfrog Spa. If you look at the first entry in this thread, you can see that they replaced it with a different brand. Is there any reason this would not be good?
I told the lady that morning to ask them to bring out an Ozone Generator, since mine was leaking pretty bad by that time, so I'm assuming this was all they had. They didn't discuss it with my wife and I was at work; they just showed up and switched it out.
The good news is, the breaker isn't tripping any more, so thank ya'll for all the help!
 
tnthudson said:
View attachment 336757

OK, so my LPB was able to come out and did apparently agree with the assessments in this thread that the Ozone Generator was bad in my new Bullfrog Spa. If you look at the first entry in this thread, you can see that they replaced it with a different brand. Is there any reason this would not be good?
I told the lady that morning to ask them to bring out an Ozone Generator, since mine was leaking pretty bad by that time, so I'm assuming this was all they had. They didn't discuss it with my wife and I was at work; they just showed up and switched it out.
The good news is, the breaker isn't tripping any more, so thank ya'll for all the help!
Click to expand...


Bullfrog states that their EOS generator puts out 100 mg/hr - that is across all tubs. It is a blanket statement - 100 mg/hr 880 ppm (20 cfh)

It's hard to determine what model Del Ozone generator that is, but most of the Del Ozone generators state 50 - 70 mg/hr

A Bullfrog EOS generator is also $350+ while the Del Ozone is about $150

So two questions - does your tub actually use more than 70 mg / hr of Ozone. Remember any extra ozone is destroyed in the charcoal canister. If it does, then I would ask for the Bullfrog EOS unit.

If 70 mg / hr is enough, the question is, does this matter to you. In my opinion, an under warranty repair should use OEM parts. If I take my car in under warranty and it needs a transmission, I want a new manufacturer transmission, not a third party compatible one. (that is also much cheaper). It looks like your dealer replaced the OEM part with a cheaper one on a warranty repair. If this was a repair you were paying for, I would expect them to present the two options and let you choose. But for a warranty repair (that is likely billed back to Bullfrog) I would expect an OEM part.
 
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RDspaguy said:
In the current situation it may be a case of using what you can get. There are supply issues all over the industry from covid. Bullfrog might even be sending those out as a warranty replacement.
Click to expand...


That is true too - never thought of that.

My spa dealer said he has 8 or 9 Bullfrogs on back order from the factory, because the factory is waiting on subwoofers so they can complete the build - otherwise the tubs are completed. My dealer said, he told Bullfrog to ship them without the subwoofers and when they get them in, he will have his tech install them at his own cost.

He said he has a lot of upset customers waiting months for tubs, and he would rather deliver one now, without a subwoofer, and then fix it later, than have a customer wait an other 3 -4 months.

That may very well be the only ozone generator that the dealer could get at this time.
 
Hey ya'll, if I should start a new thread please tell me, but this is related to the previous situation discussed in this thread.
As I stated earlier, I got a new Bullfrog spa, and the ozonator crapped out. My LPB replaced it, but I'm thinking the new one may not be working now. My water was quite cloudy and it had been a few months since I changed it out, so I put new water in a couple of weeks ago and the water is cloudy again.
I'm balancing it every weekend (which is about the only time I have to do that), but I don't see any bubbles coming up from the bottom jets in the spa, other than for a minute or so after I turn the jets off.
SO- is there a way to tell if the ozonator is working?
AND - if it isn't, I'm okay with just balancing the spa without taking the ozonator into account.
Which leads me to - What should my TA, pH, CH, etc. be in a Bullfrog spa without an ozonator?
Thanks as always.
 
tnthudson said:
Hey ya'll, if I should start a new thread please tell me, but this is related to the previous situation discussed in this thread.
As I stated earlier, I got a new Bullfrog spa, and the ozonator crapped out. My LPB replaced it, but I'm thinking the new one may not be working now. My water was quite cloudy and it had been a few months since I changed it out, so I put new water in a couple of weeks ago and the water is cloudy again.
I'm balancing it every weekend (which is about the only time I have to do that), but I don't see any bubbles coming up from the bottom jets in the spa, other than for a minute or so after I turn the jets off.
SO- is there a way to tell if the ozonator is working?
AND - if it isn't, I'm okay with just balancing the spa without taking the ozonator into account.
Which leads me to - What should my TA, pH, CH, etc. be in a Bullfrog spa without an ozonator?
Thanks as always.
Click to expand...
Ozone is not going to clarify your water. It kills organisms (and oxidizes things such as free chlorine). It does not remove them once they are dead.

Bubbles do not come out of the ozonator on a BF spa. There is a canister that fills with water. Ozone is introduced into this sealed canister, and mixed with the water. Excess Ozone and any other gasses are vented through a charcoal filter under the tub (not into the tub), the now sanitized (in theory) water in the canister is then discharged into the tub. A new charge of water is brought into the canister and the process repeats. The water returns through the little jet with the clear trim around it in the center of the side of the tub with the topside controls on it.
 
I have a Bullfrog, their small 315 gal. A5L. Great tub. It has the fancy EOS Ozone generator. Honestly I could do without the ozone. Keeping adequate chlorine levels and balanced water is really all you need. Ozone is an oxidizer, but not a sanitizer. You still need a sanitizer anyway like chlorine or bromine. It turns out chlorine is not only a great inexpensive sanitizer, but also an oxidizer.

I keep my FC between 2 and 5 PPM, CYA at 20, pH in the 7’s, TA around 40, and CH is 150 just to keep foaming down (we have soft water to start). The ozone generator in theory allows me to dose the chlorine up on the high side after a soak, and it’ll quickly drop back in range by the next day since ozone destroys chlorine if it has nothing better to do. That said I probably wouldn’t notice if the EOS stopped producing ozone, since chlorine works exceptionally well all by itself (assuming a little CYA to buffer it). My previous tub didn’t have ozone, and I added a SWCG to make it a bit more self-sufficient when I was gone traveling.

Read the thread at the top of this forum subsection on how to maintain a chlorine spa. I use dichlor for the first week to build up the CYA then and just dose an ounce or two of plain unscented liquid bleach after each 20 min daily soak from then on. Water is crystal clear and fresh for months at a time.

Ask questions as needed!
 
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BravoRomeo said:
I have a Bullfrog, their small 315 gal. A5L. Great tub. It has the fancy EOS Ozone generator. Honestly I could do without the ozone. Keeping adequate chlorine levels and balanced water is really all you need. Ozone is an oxidizer, but not a sanitizer. You still need a sanitizer anyway like chlorine or bromine. It turns out chlorine is not only a great inexpensive sanitizer, but also an oxidizer.

I keep my FC between 2 and 5 PPM, CYA at 20, pH in the 7’s, TA around 40, and CH is 150 just to keep foaming down (we have soft water to start). The ozone generator in theory allows me to dose the chlorine up on the high side after a soak, and it’ll be back in range by the next day since ozone destroys chlorine if it has nothing better to do. That said I probably wouldn’t notice if it stopped producing ozone, since chlorine works by itself.

Read the thread at the top of this forum subsection on how to maintain a chlorine spa. I use dichlor for the first week to build up the CYA then and once or two of plain unscented liquid bleach after each 20 min daily soak from then on. Water is crystal clear and fresh for months at a time.

Ask questions as needed!
Click to expand...
OK thanks very much! Yep, I've seen the dichlor to chlorine post, I'll have to check it out again. And I'll have to see where I have my numbers, I may be way high on the TA, I'll check. Thanks again.
 
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tnthudson said:
OK thanks very much! Yep, I've seen the dichlor to chlorine post, I'll have to check it out again. And I'll have to see where I have my numbers, I may be way high on the TA, I'll check. Thanks again.
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Yeah, my well water is high on the TA, like upwards of 200. It takes several cycles of pushing the pH down to 7.2 with muriatic acid, then running the jets for 30 minutes or so, which drives the pH back up to about 8. Then repeat the cycle with acid, aeration, test. It takes about four or five cycles of that to get my TA down to around 40-50 where the pH will be stable on its own for my particular water. I think the pool stores like to recommend a higher TA because it naturally results in people being trapped in an endless cycle of adjusting balance with high profit Pool Store TA Up / pH Down chems. For people who only use dichlor and never switch to plain bleach, perhaps higher TA works since dichlor is net-acidic, but then CYA builds up way too high.
 
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tnthudson said:
Excellent. I knew that lowering pH and aerating would drop the TA, but didn't realize you need to do it several cycles like that. Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Your situation and water may be different, but as a point of reference, after I change my water out, it takes me about two weeks of almost daily acid additions until the TA gets to a point where my pH is relatively stable and only needs maybe a weekly adjustment. Then it lasts until I change my water again.
 
I have been and remain a fan of ozone when used on a 24/7 circulation system. Yes, you still need chlorine, but ozone is an oxidizer that eliminates the high CC that results from the "heavy bather load" most spas experience from just a few bathers.
Yes, chlorine is also an oxidizer, but much weaker and requires raising free chlorine to levels that may prohibit use in order to oxidize the CC. Ozone does not raise FC, but in fact oxidizes it as well.
And, in my experience, it is very helpful in maintaining water clarity and eliminating chemical odors and eye/skin irritation.
On a non-24 hour system it is much less effective, to the point of uselessness at 4 hours per day.
 
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