Under Construction in NJ - waiting on patio

[jonnyd91]

Thanks for the response @jimmythegreek and everyone else.

The PB is a huge d-bag and basically told me I don't know what I'm talking about and I shouldn't be talking to others, I should be coming to them with concerns. I told him last time I did it took 3 weeks and countless emails and phone calls to get a call back from the owner. He ended up coming out on Sunday to take a look and we made amends and he promised to have it fixed on Monday and scheduled backfill for Thursday. Well as you may have guessed they no-showed Monday and Tuesday and ignored my calls and emails until I sent an email mid-day on Wednesday stating the course of action I would be taking if they continued to ignore my communications and refusing to finish the pool (consumer complaint->hiring another company to finish ->recouping damages in court -> truthful reviews everywhere). I got a response within 10 minutes telling me someone will be there within the hour.

The installer (who couldn't be nicer) came out yesterday explained the reasons for the reinforcements in the corners and basically said the same thing that Jimmy did. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that they could have done a wet install since they came late at night and had me fill the pool to the shallow end over night and came back the next day to cut the returns, skimmers, and light. Anyway, he took the cover piece off the gasket and there was a screw missing. However that hole was right next to another screw which makes me think they messed up putting the gasket on initially. Anyway he put another screw in and tightened the rest and we started filling and it looked like that fixed the problem. However I checked this morning and the back of the stairs are wet again in that same spot.

I’m guessing there is a hairline crack in the stairs, but even if that were the case water would still have to be getting past the gasket, right?

The installer gave me his cell and told me to text him this morning if it's leaking, which I did but I'm not sure he's going to come as I had it out with the owner last night after he told me he had to push backfill until next week. We are already beyond the end date specified in the contract (45 working days from dig to patio poured). He gave me some ******** about rain days not counting despite installing half my pool in the rain. Given the owner's response to my concerns and his nonchalant attitude I don't really see a way forward with this PB and I really don't trust him to do anything else. Last night when I thought the leak was fixed, I was fine with that and figured I would just backfill myself and maybe even do it the right way with clean stone. But now that I see the leak isn't fixed, I'm guessing I need to call another pool company to come out and assess the situation.

I can't imagine any reputable PBs looking for extra work right now, nevermind something with so many red flags and potential liabilities. Anyone have any advice on how I should move forward?

It sure looks like the gasket to me, make them just replace the entire gasket and reseat the liner.

I cant imagine you can find a builder in our area now, everyone is so backed up. My neighbor and I put in a pool we started a month apart, he is still waiting for concrete decking. I lucked out because I used a different contractor than the builder because I needed stone work done and they didnt do that type of work. IME, you need to be on their Rear every day. I emailed just regular communications either daily or every other day and that worked for the most part. However, when they said they would be there they always were, so the fact that you PB doesnt show is BS, id be livid too. Try to work directly with the sub if that helps, i suppose the install is only as good as the subcontractor doing it.

What do you have left after backfill? Is electric done? equipment?

 

[mikemikemike13]

You definitely have a leak somewhere. Are you sure this is not from somewhere else? Sprinkler, water line break, ground water. You can check your water meter to ensure it is not running to check the first two. The PB seems to only respond to legal action, but the quality of work and lack of responsibility is the real issue. You are in a bad place because as you stated, getting a reputable installer/builder to fix this will be hard. Have you tried the manufacturer? Maybe they can put pressure on the builder To do the right thing.

Yes, definitely coming from the pool. When I drained it down below the gasket it was completely dry. Sprinkler lines are off, the actuator valves and main shut off in my basement. Ground water would have to be coming up through the 8" of concrete collar and in that exact same spot. I have not tried the manufacturer, but I will definitely send them an email. Thanks.

 

[mikemikemike13]

It sure looks like the gasket to me, make them just replace the entire gasket and reseat the liner.

I cant imagine you can find a builder in our area now, everyone is so backed up. My neighbor and I put in a pool we started a month apart, he is still waiting for concrete decking. I lucked out because I used a different contractor than the builder because I needed stone work done and they didnt do that type of work. IME, you need to be on their Rear every day. I emailed just regular communications either daily or every other day and that worked for the most part. However, when they said they would be there they always were, so the fact that you PB doesnt show is BS, id be livid too. Try to work directly with the sub if that helps, i suppose the install is only as good as the subcontractor doing it.

What do you have left after backfill? Is electric done? equipment?

Wouldn't they need to replace the entire liner at that point since they already cut it?

All that is left is backfill and decking. He also owes me the railings for the steps and a vacuum/hose and startup chemicals. Otherwise everything else is done. Equipment is installed and electrical done and passed inspection.

I wish I went with my neighbors installer. They went with a local company who I had give me a quote last year, but I was nervous using them for a new install as 99% of their business is liner replacement. Now that I see that the liner is really the most important and I see how professional they are compared to my company, I'm really kicking myself in the Rear.

 

[jonnyd91]

Wouldn't they need to replace the entire liner at that point since they already cut it?

All that is left is backfill and decking. He also owes me the railings for the steps and a vacuum/hose and startup chemicals. Otherwise everything else is done. Equipment is installed and electrical done and passed inspection.

I wish I went with my neighbors installer. They went with a local company who I had give me a quote last year, but I was nervous using them for a new install as 99% of their business is liner replacement. Now that I see that the liner is really the most important and I see how professional they are compared to my company, I'm really kicking myself in the Rear.

I guess you would have to see when they take the metal edges off how its seated, I dont know if the liner is a one and done thing after you install it. My steps are liner steps so the liner was all one piece, there was no gasket there.
PM me who is doing your concrete, I can at least let you know if its the same place my neighbor is using. Id give you my guy but he is over a month out right now.
At least the majority is done that you could finish without the PB, do you owe hime enough money to sever ties, or would you have to go after him to get money back?

 

[mikemikemike13]

I guess you would have to see when they take the metal edges off how its seated, I dont know if the liner is a one and done thing after you install it. My steps are liner steps so the liner was all one piece, there was no gasket there.
PM me who is doing your concrete, I can at least let you know if its the same place my neighbor is using. Id give you my guy but he is over a month out right now.
At least the majority is done that you could finish without the PB, do you owe hime enough money to sever ties, or would you have to go after him to get money back?

He’s pretty much fully paid, which is why he just doesn’t care. I only owe him a few hundred so I will definitely have to go after him for damages.

 

[jamjam]

i am a bit paranoid that my steps or returns could be leaking (I have no evidence that they are) but the pool was backfilled so i never had access to under the steps like you do in order to inspect. Hopefully the liner guy comes back and can provide a fix - I mean you should not have to deal with this - you paid for a non leaking pool and that is what you should get.

 

[mikemikemike13]

i am a bit paranoid that my steps or returns could be leaking (I have no evidence that they are) but the pool was backfilled so i never had access to under the steps like you do in order to inspect. Hopefully the liner guy comes back and can provide a fix - I mean you should not have to deal with this - you paid for a non leaking pool and that is what you should get.

I don’t know which is better. It’s such a small leak that I’m not even sure it would be noticeable once backfilled and ignorance can be bliss. But now that I know, I can’t let it go.

 

[cowboycasey]

I don’t know which is better. It’s such a small leak that I’m not even sure it would be noticeable once backfilled and ignorance can be bliss. But now that I know, I can’t let it go.

A small leak can turn into a big leak then it starts costing money.. both finding the leak and then stopping it... Better to deal with it now

 

[jimmythegreek]

Leaks around stairs are the worst, as the stairs are the hardest to backfill. They end up settling and get hollow and bouncy. Where in NJ are you located

 

[mikemikemike13]

Leaks around stairs are the worst, as the stairs are the hardest to backfill. They end up settling and get hollow and bouncy. Where in NJ are you located

I’m in Middlesex County. I checked again this morning and it looked dry behind the stairs but when I touch the back of the fiberglass with even the slightest pressure, water comes through. Maybe it could be rain water that that seeped in through the back and is just coming out now as it did rain two days ago. But the fact that it’s coming out directly behind where the gasket is screwed in and nowhere else makes me think it’s definitely pool water coming through a screw hole.

 

[wireform]

I’m in Middlesex County. I checked again this morning and it looked dry behind the stairs but when I touch the back of the fiberglass with even the slightest pressure, water comes through. Maybe it could be rain water that that seeped in through the back and is just coming out now as it did rain two days ago. But the fact that it’s coming out directly behind where the gasket is screwed in and nowhere else makes me think it’s definitely pool water coming through a screw hole.

If you can get enough water somehow into a vessel then you can test it. If it's indeed pool water it'll have chlorine unlike rain water which will have nothing.

 

[ajw22]

If you can get enough water somehow into a vessel then you can test it. If it's indeed pool water it'll have chlorine unlike rain water which will have nothing.

You can also test for CYA. CYA does not naturally occur and if the water clouds up with the CYA test then it is coming from the pool.

 

[mikemikemike13]

Thank you everyone for the replies. It helps to vent here. So I ended up draining the pool below the gasket and tightening all the screws myself. There were two that I was able to 1/4 turn without too much resistance. I suspect that was where the leak was coming from, if it was even leaking. I suspect the water I was seeing was left over water from the previous leak or rain water just “sweating” from the back of the fiberglass. I waited about 48 hours and it was still dry despite being filled.

I emailed my PB on Sunday letting him know that I fixed the leak and giving him one last chance to fulfill the contract this week. He sent out a crew yesterday to backfill, start up the pool, and drop off the remaining items. This was a different, much more professional crew, but of course there was no communication as they brought sched 40 couplings to extend the piers despite them being sewer pipe, and thus different diameters. They ended up wasting a half hour duct taping them on just to have them smashed down anyway during backfill. Regardless, not a big deal as they did tape them closed to prevent them from being filled with dirt

So now I’m watering the backfill and the mason should be out next week or the week after to pour the patio.

The guys yesterday also ran a bond wire around the perimeter of the pool 4” deep. Any reason they didn’t fill the trench in? I’m assuming they thought maybe for inspection but as far as I’m concerned electrical inspection is done.

 

[mikemikemike13]

Bonding question here. The owner stopped by today to drop off the railings. He took a cursory look at the pool and left. A few hours later l get an email from the office girl telling me they dug a 4” tench around the pool for the bonding wire and it appears I’ve been washing down the backfill and I need to make sure it’s as they left it or I risk failing inspection. Now, I haven’t touched the wire or the trench and told her since they didn’t compact at all it already settled 2+” in some spots so I can’t return it to how they left it. I told her i would make sure it wasn’t buried by runoff but to send someone out ASAP if it’s going to be a problem and delay the mason.

Since they’re useless I figured I’d just research it myself. It seems it can be as deep as 6” below subgrade. I plan to continue watering and hand tamp this weekend. I plan to order some gravel to raise the overfill back up after.

Can the bonding wire rest on the gravel? I can’t imagine it has to be in contact with the dirt but just wanted to double check.

Assuming contact with gravel only is fine do I have to trench it for inspection? Say I compact and tamp the backfill down to 6” below the wall height can I just bring it back up 2” with gravel and rest the bonding wire on the surface and wait for inspection?

I’m going to guess the answer is to call the inspector tomorrow but figured I’d ask here first.

 

[jamjam]

Electrician told me they always just tuck it along the side of the pool and don’t even bury it. I’m not sure how your local inspectors are but I would not worry too much. My inspector never even took a look at the bonding grid. He walked to the equipment pad and took 5 seconds and then left.

 

[jimmythegreek]

It's fine to sit on the dirt. If your adding gravel he will see it's at the proper sub grade. He needs to see the 4 attach points to the pool. And it needs to run back to the pad amd any metal rails. Hand tamping dirt that was just pushed in wont do anything. If you get a monster rain that will sink several inches.

 

[mikemikemike13]

It's fine to sit on the dirt. If your adding gravel he will see it's at the proper sub grade. He needs to see the 4 attach points to the pool. And it needs to run back to the pad amd any metal rails. Hand tamping dirt that was just pushed in wont do anything. If you get a monster rain that will sink several inches.

Yes, hand tamping did nothing except provide a decent workout lol. After watering and a decent rain the dirt settled about 6-8”. I added about 5 yards of gravel this weekend to raise it a few inches and laid the bonding wire on top of the grave so it is sitting approximately 4-5” under the wall height.

 

[jonnyd91]

So how did the end result come out?