Two IntelliChlor Cells with one IntelliCenter?

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TopJimmy

TopJimmy

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2023
73
Louisville, KY
Pool Size
10000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I have Intellicenter with 2 separate bodies of water (pool & spa). I hooked up both intellichlors to the data bus. Intellicenter controlled them as if they were 1 intellichlor (presumably for parallel operations). Well, I didn't want that because I run my spa intellichlor at 4% and my pool intellichlor at 40%.
I called Pentair and asked for technical advice. Pentair guy confirmed that intellicenter is working as designed and cannot separately control intellichlors with different settings. So I disconnected the spa intellichlor from the data bus. Now intellicenter software controls/reports on the pool intellichlor only. I don't see why Pentair would design a dual body system to control dual everything EXCEPT for the intellichlors. Weird design choice.
 
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Can you also include a picture(s) of your equipment pad? That certainly does not sound like the traditional pool/spa setup.

I have seen cases where people use 2 Intellichlors for larger pools. Typically you have 1 on the IC's at a fixed % like 80%, then use the Intellicenter to control the % of the 2nd IC.
 
Jim,

I suggest that you open the IntelliCenter and drop the front panel down and see if you can find any labels on the circuit cards that you see inside. You can't hurt anything by doing that..

That said, I have been thinking about your problem.. The standard IntelliCenter has one plug on the bottom left of the cabinet where the IntelliChlor plugs in. If you have two IntelliChlors, then the second one must be connected to an external SWCG Power Center. (I think I see it on the wall.) The problem that I see is the RS-485 com bus.. it is a serial bus where everything is connected to the same bus.. This mean that it can't tell the difference between SWCG#1 and SWCG#2.. The only way it could work is if your dual equipment card had two separate com ports. I have no idea if your i10D card has two com ports or not, as they are not very common, and I have never seen one. :scratch: But... if it does, then it may be as simple as your 2nd SWCG is connected to the wrong com port..

Show us several pics of your the cards with the front panel dropped down..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
I checked and yes the i10 is installed. The 2nd intellichlor has the additional, separate transformer. The data bus (RS-485) is a common bus shared with all the components (at least the manual says to connect the separate transformer's bus to the common bus, but that is apparently designed for parallel operations only). So while one can designate various pumps with unique addresses so that the system knows which pump to communicate with, there is no such "addressing" system for the intellichlors. Meaning, I think the Pentair rep is correct.
 
Jim,

I agree with you... but, as you said in your initial post... It makes no sense to have a "Dual Equipment" system that won't control two different cells. :scratch:

Sigh!!

Let's see if this member has any input... Calling @MyAZPool

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
It makes no sense to have a "Dual Equipment" system that won't control two different cells. :scratch:
Click to expand...

Short sightness and lack of imagination of the IntelliChlor designers some 20 years ago.

I think the Intellichlor was the first device Pentair developed using RS-485 maybe 20 years ago.

They did not imagine the need for independent controls of two cells on seperate bodies of water on one automation system and design in addressing for the cell.

Someday Pentair may come out with Intellichlor2 that allows changing the RS-485 address on the cell and other improvements. The Intellichlor has been out for a long time with no changes and Pentair is milking their old R&D investment in it.

We have seen new designs in Pentair's pump products and improvements with the "Connected Heater". The Intellichlor system is due for a design update. Diagnostic messages to the Intellicenter like the connected heater now does would be very helpful so we don't have to decode LED light displays.
 
TopJimmy said:
I supposedly have the i10d card (at least I was charged for one).View attachment 531874View attachment 531875View attachment 531876View attachment 531877View attachment 531878View attachment 531879
Click to expand...
You have the right people on your actual question, but I’m really curious about Why you ended up with that setup.

I get that you would be able to run the pool and the spa at the same time, but there would also be some serious disadvantages including cost of an extra heater, pump, filter and you will have to manage both bodies of water separately.

Did you go that route so you can winterize the pool but keep the spa open? Some other reason I’m missing?
 
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Yes, closing the pool, but keeping the spa open longer, or possibly all winter, was the idea. Another factor was my waterfalls which required all flow from one pump, so I was going to need another pump anyway.
Now, knowing what I know now: I would do things differently. For example: I’d probably put the waterfall on its own pump/filter or not have waterfalls at all. Then I’d have the spa/pool share the same water (appropriately valved) with a dual core heater. Because it is now apparent to me that keeping the spa open in the Jan-Feb timeframe is probably cost prohibitive in terms of heating the water.
But I did what I did and maintaining 2 separate bodies of water has not been a problem thus far.
 
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Jimrahbe said:
Jim,

I agree with you... but, as you said in your initial post... It makes no sense to have a "Dual Equipment" system that won't control two different cells. :scratch:

Sigh!!

Let's see if this member has any input... Calling @MyAZPool

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...
@Jimrahbe
Jim,
I’ll have to get back to y’all on this one.

I could bloviate or filibuster about what Pentair should have done in the past, could have done better (most of which I agree with, BTW). Or what might or might not be possible as a "workaround" solution. But at this point, that won’t help the OP resolve their core issue.

Instead, I have an upcoming telecon with a couple of folks regarding an unrelated IntelliCenter issue that another member is experiencing that Tech Support is not helping with (go figure lol). And who might just either have an answer to this issue or who can possibly drop this in the lap of someone, who might know how this issue can be satisfactorily resolved. If at all possible?

I’ll stay on it and see what I can find out and report back when I have something useful. I’m certainly curious.
Thanks..
r.
 
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TopJimmy said:
Yes, closing the pool, but keeping the spa open longer, or possibly all winter, was the idea. Another factor was my waterfalls which required all flow from one pump, so I was going to need another pump anyway.
Now, knowing what I know now: I would do things differently. For example: I’d probably put the waterfall on its own pump/filter or not have waterfalls at all. Then I’d have the spa/pool share the same water (appropriately valved) with a dual core heater. Because it is now apparent to me that keeping the spa open in the Jan-Feb timeframe is probably cost prohibitive in terms of heating the water.
But I did what I did and maintaining 2 separate bodies of water has not been a problem thus far.
Click to expand...
Everyone would do things differently on some aspect of their pool. While your setup is not the traditional setup, hopefully it allows you to use the spa more than a traditional system that requires it to be closed.

One comment on keeping the spa open in Jan-Feb, if the concern is just heating costs, you should not have to keep it heated 24/7. Keeping the water moving is what protects the pipes and equipment from freezing not the heat.

You and I have a very similar pool/spa size and I also have a Pentair Master Temp heater (mine is 400k BTU, can't tell your BTU from the pic). Heating our spa in the winter takes 30-45 minutes, which we do a couple of times a week. The rest of the time we just rely on the IntelliCenter's freeze protection to kick in when we get freezing weather to keep the water circulating and free of ice. Note we are in the Dallas area and get lows in the 20's most winters with the possibility of dipping into the teens for lows some winters. Your winters are a bit more harsh but it still may be a possibility to keep the spa open.
 
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JJ_Tex said:
One comment on keeping the spa open in Jan-Feb, if the concern is just heating costs, you should not have to keep heated 24/7. Keeping the water moving is what protects the pipes and equipment from freezing not the heat.
Click to expand...

Beware of corrosive condensation if you frequently let the water temperature drop below 68F. It can greatly shorten the life of the heater.

Heater Condensation - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

The Pentair MasterTemp Heaters says:

  • Operating this heater continuously at water temperatures below 68° F. (20° C) will cause harmful condensation and will damage the heater and void the warranty.
  • When starting the heater for the swimming season with a water temperature below 50° F (10° C), the heater may be used to heat the water; however, make sure that the heater operates continuously until the water temperature reaches the heater’s minimum setting of 68° F (20° C).
The Pentair ETI Heaters and UltraTemp ETI Hybrid Heater do Condensation Management. Their manuals say:

The ETi® 400 Heater is a condensing appliance. The flue gases will produce condensate while in operation and must be drained correctly. Note: The condensate pH level is between 3.1 and 4.2, Pentair recommends to neutralize the condensate to avoid potential damage over time to the drainage system, and to comply with local water authorities where applicable. To neutralize the condensate, use an optional Condensate Neutralizer Kit P/N 475612 or similar. The condensate drain must be installed so as to prevent accumulation of condensate.
 
It’s a MasterTemp 175. I keep the pool at 80. If I think I’ll get in I’ll bump it to 86 in the morning and it takes about 1 hr to get up. If it’s an unplanned swim then 80 is still not too cold to get in.
Spa I keep at 75 and it takes about an hour to get to 95 with MasterTemp 125.
Probably I’ll close pool mid Nov and see how it goes with spa keeping it at 75 when system is “on”. I run the pump 12 hrs/day.
 
TopJimmy said:
I have Intellicenter with 2 separate bodies of water (pool & spa). I hooked up both intellichlors to the data bus. Intellicenter controlled them as if they were 1 intellichlor (presumably for parallel operations). Well, I didn't want that because I run my spa intellichlor at 4% and my pool intellichlor at 40%.
I called Pentair and asked for technical advice. Pentair guy confirmed that intellicenter is working as designed and cannot separately control intellichlors with different settings. So I disconnected the spa intellichlor from the data bus. Now intellicenter software controls/reports on the pool intellichlor only. I don't see why Pentair would design a dual body system to control dual everything EXCEPT for the intellichlors. Weird design choice.
Click to expand...
@TopJimmy
I posed your issue to some folks at Pentair and they got back with me just now.
Per the Automation / iOT department at Pentair.... At present, there is no immediate "workaround or solution to this issue".
However... "Support for 2 addressable IntelliChlor ports is in fact on our roadmap. Based on priorities it could be Q2 – Q3 2024 before we’ll have the feature enabled."

Sorry , that's all I could get you right now with regards to your issue. I'm sure it's frustrating.
Thanks...
r.
 

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