Trying to SLAM; Also Ph low & TA high

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C

CrozB

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Jun 1, 2015
17
Annapolis, MD
Hi all,

Opened pool 4 weeks ago- tested,(TF-100) added chemicals and we were good to go. Continued testing every 2 days; no problems. Test results on Sat. June 17

Ph 7.2
FC 5
CC 0
TC 5
CH 425
TA 70
CYA 75

Mon. June 19 I noticed water getting cloudy & tested again. It rained heavily all day.

Ph 7.2
FC 0
CC 0
TC 0
CH 450
TA 130
CYA 0

I checked the SWG and had no flow. At the most 2 days w/o SWG. Pulled it out and cleaned it, although it was clean already. Still no flow at this point - read that I had to recalibrate it. Done! Working now. Yesterday I slammed the pool and set SWG at 100%, added algaecide (Kem Tech 60) and added stabilizer per pool math. Today my readings are:

Ph 7.2
FC 10
CC 0
TC 10
CH 475
TA 120
CYA 30

Pool math doesn't give me a solution to lowering TA when Ph is already low. What can I do? I'm also concerned about the CH rising. The water is still cloudy...can't see our 4 th step at 3ft.

thanks for reading
Lisa
 
Trying to SLAM; Also Ph low & TA high

Aeration will bring pH up. But why? 7.2 pH is perfect for a SLAM Process. Deal with the cloudiness and pass the three tests to end the SLAM Process, and by the time that is through, pH will likely have risen. If not, don't worry. A few kids in the pool will get things aerated.

The CH might just be the margin of error. That's only one drop difference.
 
Trying to SLAM; Also Ph low & TA high

Pool math doesn't give me a solution to lowering TA when Ph is already low. What can I do?
Click to expand...
Lisa, you'll want to aerate to increase the pH before trying to lower the TA any further. You can read more about that on the TFP Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity page. As for CH, are you using a speedstir to help mix while applying the drops? It can make a difference. If it turns-out your CH is still in the 450-range, it's still very manageable by keeping the pH under 7.8 or even slightly lower.

As for your cloudiness, I suspect that's algae trying to bloom. Not sure what happened back on 19 Jun, but the FC and CYA numbers are alarming. Also, CYA doesn't just drop from 70-80 to nothing, so I suspect that may be a testing error. The latest test shows a CYA of 30, but that would've been too low for your SWG pool anyway. My gut tells me you're going to have to perform a "SLAM" (link below) to clear the water and ensure any algae trying to bloom is killed. If your CYA truly is 30 (still), then that is perfect for a SLAM and your SLAM FC level would need to be "12" using regular bleach until you pass the SLAM. If you increased your CYA already, you'll need a higher FC level (more bleach). Never add an algaecide to treat existing algae or perform a SLAM. You also don't need to run the SWG at 100%. In fact, most SWG owners reduce the % or turn it off altogether while using bleach to maintain the FC level. Most importantly, remember you must maintain the SLAM FC level until you pass all 3 SLAM criteria. A SLAM is not a one-time increase.

Hope that helps.
 
Trying to SLAM; Also Ph low & TA high

What I'm reading is to get TC in check first before worrying about high TA and CH? Is this correct? I'm familiar with the SLAM method, no questions there. The lowering TA page has me confused as it states to lower Ph, aerate & continue until desired level. My ph is 7.2 now. Is it safe to drop it more? OR just aerate w/o m.a.
 
Trying to SLAM; Also Ph low & TA high

CrozB said:
What I'm reading is to get TC in check first before worrying about high TA and CH? Is this correct? I'm familiar with the SLAM method, no questions there. The lowering TA page has me confused as it states to lower Ph, aerate & continue until desired level. My ph is 7.2 now. Is it safe to drop it more? OR just aerate w/o m.a.
Click to expand...
Get rid of the haziness first. Don't get distracted by the other stuff. SLAM it (Remember the And Maintain part) and pass the three tests before you worry about the rest.

The pH/TA thing works like a ratchet and a bolt. The pH is the ratchet, the TA is the bolt. You add acid. That's like turning the ratchet. pH goes down, TA does down. Then you aerate. That's pulling the ratchet up. The bolt stays where it was. pH goes up but the TA stays down. Your pH is already as low as you want to go, so the next step is to pull the ratchet up: aerate. But wait until after you've SLAMmed it properly.

The high CH is just something you'll have to live with. Draining and refilling some with the exact same source water you used to fill it originally won't change things much. For what it's worth, my pool hasn't been below 400 ever in the 7 years I've owned it. It's easily managed. But first, eliminate any cloudiness and pass the SLAM.
 
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Trying to SLAM; Also Ph low & TA high

Hope it's ok to ask for slamming help under this thread. I'm having a real problem slamming my pool. I've been thru 25 gallons of bleach and I got nothing in the chlorine readings. 8 gallons were 12% & 17 gallons were 8.25%.
As I stated above, I was concerned with high TA and low Ph and looking for a remedy for cloudiness. It was suggested I slam the pool first to a level of 12, since my CYA reading was 30. I wanted to hit this hard so calculated for a target of 18. I have not been able to get it there!

Wednesday June 21- 7pm
FC 5.5
CC 1.0. added 345 oz. 8.25% bleach. Fell asleep. Didn't check night reading

Thursday June 22-
10 am
FC 6.0
CC 1.5 added 544 oz bleach

12pm
FC 10.0
CC 1.5. added 363 oz bleach

1pm
FC 2.0
CC 1.0 Had to purchase more bleach

3:30 pm
added 512 oz. 12% liquid chlorine turned SWG off.

3:45 pm
FC 14
CC 1.0

4:10 pm added 256 oz of 12%

4:50 pm
FC 10
CC 1.0

5pm added 256 oz of 12%

5:20 pm
FC 11
CC 1.0

6:05 pm
FC 3
CC 1.5 purchased more bleach

8:25 pm
FC 0.5
CC 1.5 added 479 oz. of 8.25%

9:10 pm
FC 11.5

Thursday June 23
9 am
Ph 7.0
FC 0
CC 2.0
CH 475
TA 90


I have run out of CYA testing reagent and ordered more. Water is still cloudy, no visible algae, bumped and refilled DE (was clean) pressure has never risen above 20, brushing 2x yesterday. No sun today and raining! Does this sound like ammonia problem? Nothing visible in water or walls, but the chlorine is being eaten up by something!
any help, thoughts or considerations are really needed.






 
Trying to SLAM; Also Ph low & TA high

Ammonia? Perhaps, but I'm not totally convinced ... yet. The reason why is that if you had ammonia, you wouldn't be able to retain any FC the way you seem to have been in the past couple days. While there were numerous big FC drops, there were a few times when FC seemed to hang in there for a while. Your CCs are elevated, but not as high as we've seen in other situations. I notice you turned-off the SWG yesterday afternoon which is probably a good thing and may have been skewing your pinpoint FC testing at times from knowing exactly what the bleach was/as not doing. I have a feeling the bleach is also being consumed by that algaecide you added. It's very possible that's why the testing is so erratic. However, if there was ammonia in the water 4 weeks ago when you opened, you wouldn't have been able to record a CYA of almost 80.

So here's the situation: If you are sure your CYA was 30 the last time you checked, then maintaining an FC of "12" is what you need. Going higher won't help or accelerate the process. If you have ANY doubt about your current CYA, then simply stop and wait for the refills. No sense wasting time & effort guessing. Everything you do for the SLAM hinges on that accurate CYA.
Proper lighting is critical for the CYA test, so you want to test for CYA outside on a bright sunny day. Taylor recommends standing outside with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body. Use the mixing bottle to combine/gently mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then gently mix again. Then, while holding the skinny tube with the black dot at waist level, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. After the first test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate the CYA reading.
Click to expand...

Also, I will "tweak" the title of your thread to include your SLAM issue since that appears to be the primary issue right now. :)
 
Texas Splash said:
Ammonia? Perhaps, but I'm not totally convinced ... yet. The reason why is that if you had ammonia, you wouldn't be able to retain any FC the way you seem to have been in the past couple days. While there were numerous big FC drops, there were a few times when FC seemed to hang in there for a while.
I've never experienced chlorine loss as rapidly as what I'm seeing. When I put a target # of 18 in FC and add the recommended amount of bleach and I don't get 18, it's confusing and alarming to me. I am reading all I can on this and ammonia seemed to be the reason for such high chlorine loss. Looking back at my summary of FC levels doesn't look 'that' bad...however 25 gallons of bleach is ALOT for me.

I notice you turned-off the SWG yesterday If you have ANY doubt about your current CYA, then simply stop and wait for the refills.
I DO have doubt. When you say 'stop' ... do you mean stop adding bleach? Should I turn SWG back on? If so, what %?


Also, I will "tweak" the title of your thread to include your SLAM issue since that appears to be the primary issue right now. :)
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 

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Ooppps, I should have stated the pics were from initial opening May 28th. It was my way of saying I'm not necessarily a " newbie" �� By all means, share the pics away. Im pretty proud!
Texas Splash, I replied to your comment above with some questions. Could you take a look and respond please? Thanks!
 
Texas Splash, I replied to your comment above with some questions. Could you take a look and respond please?
Click to expand...
Lisa, are you referring to the lowering TA question above in post #5? If so, you can go as low as 7.0 with the pH, but I wouldn't go any lower. As Richard noted above, I wouldn't worry about TA or any other levels until the SLAM is completed and the water is clear. The pH and/or TA are not responsible for the cloudiness. No sense juggling more than one issue at once. Focus on the SLAM process for now. Hope that covers what you were asking. If I missed another question in there somewhere, let me know.
 
I see now. :)
I've never experienced chlorine loss as rapidly as what I'm seeing. When I put a target # of 18 in FC and add the recommended amount of bleach and I don't get 18, it's confusing and alarming to me. I am reading all I can on this and ammonia seemed to be the reason for such high chlorine loss. Looking back at my summary of FC levels doesn't look 'that' bad...however 25 gallons of bleach is ALOT for me.
Click to expand...
That is a lot of bleach. Still unclear if it's ammonia or the algaecide added. By the way, do you recall how much Kem-Tek 60 you added? Either way the treatment is the same ... chlorine. But once you confirm the CYA, we'll help guide you to ensure you try to reach the required SLAM level and nothing higher.

I DO have doubt. When you say 'stop' ... do you mean stop adding bleach? Should I turn SWG back on? If so, what %?
Click to expand...
By "stop" I was referring to adding lots of bleach and trying to SLAM without an accurate CYA. For now, you can leave the SWG on and supplement with a gallon of bleach each day until the refills arrive. I just didn't want you to dump gallons and gallons in there blindly without an accurate CYA. Once you get the refills, we'll re-group and start the SLAM treatment accordingly.
 
Added 8 oz of Kem-Tek- at the time the pool was just starting to lose the sparkle. Going now to add gal. of bleach and turn SWG on. Thank you for your help! I just donated to TFP. You people have saved me $$ in the past, right now and in will in the future.
I'll get back ya after refills have arrived and I get a clear reading n CYA. BTW, thanks for info on testing CYA(post #9).
Lisa
 
Wanted to follow up on this post. Last posted on Thursday, June 23rd. Synopsis: Slam was not happening after 25 gallons of bleach, water cloudy, not sure of CYA levels (think 30) and waiting for CYA reagent to be delivered. In mean time, ran SWG at 100% & pump 24 hrs.
Honestly, not sure what the cure was... Friday, pool started to clear. By Sunday it looked great. Monday, CYA regeant was delivered. Test showed CYA -50. ( Explains why slam wasn't working. )
Tuesday, June 27th, added CYA per pool math to get to 80.
Today numbers are great!
FC- 5.5
CC- 0.5
TC- 6.0
CH-450
TA- 80
CYA- 80

:cheers:

Lisa
 
Happy to hear your water looks better. Now your are in control. :goodjob: Just remember, you were in SLAM mode and to technically complete the SLAM, it means you should've also passed an overnight (OCLT) test. I just wanted to point that out. :blah: In the future, if anything starts to look odd (cloudy, green, etc) have some regular bleach ready and ensure the FC and CYA are balanced as noted on the Chlorine/CYA Chart. You can always do an overnight (OCLT) later if needed. You're in control now Lisa. Enjoy that water, have a nice weekend, and safe 4th holiday. :swim:
 

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