Troubleshoot a MasterTemp

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Update: heater has been on and no problems at all for the whole morning. Now at 89 degrees with a target of 92. Does it make sense that the only way the heater does well is if:
a. pump on low
b. skimmer plus bonus suction port are both open

I sure don't recall it being this picky last year - I am pretty sure I heated on high at times to try to get it to temp faster (I now know that is not how it works). And I can't imagine I never had the bonus suction port closed last year -- I close it to vacuum and I would guess there were lots of times last year I did what I did this time and did not re-open it after vacuuming and before starting the heater.

If this makes sense that this is the only problem, I'll happily cancel the warranty call and move on. If this does not make any sense then I will keep the repair order open with Pentair and then my question is -- can I keep using it if is willing to work for me, or am I doing damage given the circumstances of the last few days and the intermittent Service Heater light and failure to stay heating at times? And, it it was water flow related, does it make sense Service Heater light was lit not Service System? THANKS!
 
ARGH! Pool was at 92 as was the target. Stopped heating appropriately. I was out their all morning and it was completely normal. Just took off solar cover and vacuumed to have it ready for the kids when they get home in an hour or so. In prep of vacuuming, I turned the heater off. Put the pump on high speed and closed the second suction port as I learned last year it vacuums way better when only using the skimmer. Vacuumed fine. Cleaned out pump filter basket. Put back skimmer basket in. Put pump on low and opened second suction port. Turned pump on. Made sure no air and bled air from filter. At that point I think everything was exactly as it had been this morning when it heated for 4 or 5 hours and rose from 78ish to 92. When I turned it back on and rose it to 93, it kicked on per normal. Went back out 10 minutes or so later and I could only hear the blower -- looked and sure enough, the Service Heater light was back on.

I did not turn it off b/c I wanted to flip the lid per prior poster's suggestion. But before I could get the side panels off to do so, it tried cycled back to the Service Heater light going off and the Heating light flashing as though looking for heat. Either right after it fired, or maybe without firing (can't recall) it shut off and the Service Heater light lit up.

I see no pattern. What gives??
 
Got the thermal regulator cover loosened. There is some green on the front of that flat circle. It scrapes right off. Can I reinstall the same thermal regulator, or was scraping it off a no-no. I just used my thumbnail and very little pressure and it scraped off and revealed brown. Not sure if I should have done that. Also, not sure how it could have scale, or corrosion, or whatever the green indicates (I know from other threads it is bad). I got the heater new last season and used it about 2.5 months. During that time I had what I believe were great numbers and definitely never had pH out of the range of 7.2 to 7.8 - I tested pH daily and would take it down to 7.2 or a little above each time it neared 7.8. What else could have caused this to have such a short life??

Anyone with input:
1. Can I put the old thermal regulator back in even though I gently scraped the green off the top?
2. What could have caused this to have such a short life if pH was always in range.
3. If this is damaged, is it likely the heat exchange, or coils or whatever the expensive guts are such that this thing is likely to be toast?
 
I dipped it in hot water and it opened, per a youtube video by a pool tech guy. That doesn't tell ME if it works completely, but at least i do know that much.

I do still have an open ticket. They will try to get here Friday. I ordered a thermal regulator kit and it will be here tomorrow ($50) because i didn't want to have to wait for a part if that is what they diagnose Friday. Hopefully that is all it is and they can get it going Friday so we don't lose a weekend.
 
Update and request for advice:

Pentair's approved pool boy came out Friday morning. Heater worked fine. All I had done was remove the thermal regulator, wipe a tiny bit of green from the top flat part, dip it in water over 120 degrees, and re-insert it. He was here a little under an hour and it never cycled. I described the symptoms, copped to having done what I did to the thermal regulator, and he said everything looks great and it could have been the thermal regulator was stuck and what I did unstuck it and fixed it.

Also, when I asked him to look at the thermal regulator to be sure it looked okay, he took off the front panel and pointed to the water pressure switch and asked "is this what you're talking about?" I said that's the water pressure switch and I removed that when I winterized per phone direction from Pentair. I showed him the thermal regulator "port" and he said, oh, I do better when I have the book. Anyway, he removed it, looked at it, and said the tiny amount of green is not a problem and that is unavoidable and said it looks fine. Put it back in and heater worked for the duration of his stay.

That was all early morning. He left. He assured me I can leave it on while at work - all was fine, no danger, etc. I went to work and left heater heating. Came home in evening and all seemed well. Pool was to temp. Heater was not heating and Service Heater light not on. Seemed golden.

Got up Saturday morning and turned it on to get it to 90 for kids mid-morning swim and it seemed fine. Heat rose 5 degrees or so. BUT then it cycled off again, re-fired itself, heated a bit more, then went to Service Heater light again. I put in a brand new Thermal Regulator I had ordered last week. Fired it up and again worked a short time (only 10-15 minutes I think) then cycled, re-fired, then Service Heater light.

Pentair closed Saturdays (I caught them last time on a Saturday they were there doing system updates or something) and Pentair-approved pool boy in Omaha also closed til Monday. I'll call both Monday, but wondering if this new info helps any of you have a different guess on the matter.

Is there an easy way for me to see if the heat exchanger or whatever the expensive fix is damaged? I am concerned since the thermal regulator had some of the green stuff and I thought it would not given that I do a pretty good job with water chemistry and am certain the pool pH has not been below 7.2 or above 7.8. The pump was disabled for about 6 days when the plumbing was connected, so it is possible water sat in the heater for that time - is that enough time to do major damage??
 
No there is no easy way to get at the heat exchanger on these units plus I see no reason that you would ever need to get to it based upon your description of the problem. Secondly if you were to breach that area that would surely void any warranty you have on it.

Obviously you are in an area where "pool boys" are hard to come by and not very knowledgeable.

You have got to get a look at the bottom of the board when it faults to see if any of the lights under it a lit up. This might be the only way you will figure out what's happening. If you get to look at this and there are no lights lit, then you are going to need to go in depth troubleshooting with a meter. Hopefully one of the lights will be lit.

Just be careful with what you do. Don't void that warranty.
 
Okay, came home and fired it up. It lit after 20-25 seconds and stayed on per normal but only 10 minutes or so. Then a slight squeal and quit heating, fan still on, then Service Heater light came on. I used a mirror to look at the back panel. Saw one red light on - looks to me like it is the HLS light. If that is correct, is this a water flow issue I can fix by turning the daisy wheel on the Pressure Switch? This whole time I've wondered if that setting could have gotten changed between me removing it (per Pentair) last fall and pool tech (is that better?) re-installing it? The Pressure switch is approximately 2 feet below the top of the water level (I'm guessing). If it is water flow related, shouldn't the Service System light be on instead of Service Heater?

Is it sensical that the High Limit Switch would be so intermittently a problem? The whole time the pool tech was here Friday, it worked just fine and it has for extended times throughout. Thanks again for any help.
 
Also, I ordered a High Limit Switch so it is on-hand when they come. Any other parts you think I should get to shorten the time from diagnosis to fix? Thanks for your help!
 

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Don't mess with the pressure switch. The only time anyone really needs to mess with it is if the unit sits way lower then the pool and there would be the force of the water hitting it thus not allowing it to sense that the pool pump isn't running any more. HLS tells me that it's over heating. Do you have any valves by the unit that might allow water to bypass the unit? If so, adjust the valve to make sure that more water flows thru the unit.
 
I do have it set up to bypass the heater as an option. I never bypassed last year and this year the valve is the same - all the way closed all the time (when I say all the way closed, I mean pushing it all the way into the closed position so it goes across the pipe as far as possible). My pool is an Intex, which gets taken down and the pump and filter go in the garage all winter. Heater stays out. Hoses go under a tarp. Then in late May this year, pool tech (freelance) hooked it all back up again. Appears the same as last year -- this picture is last year. If needed, I'll take one of this year, but to me it all looks the same. Again, THANK YOU for your input and time.
 

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Wait - the one coming straight at us in the photo is actually closed this year. I don't know if the picture above was right after hook up but before we started it, or if that is how we ran it last year.
 
Here is a picture of how it is currently, which is how it has been this entire season when symptoms first began. Should the "valve" (I'm guessing that is the right word) in front of the pavers and between the heater and filter be set to "open" even when I am not bypassing the heater??
[attachment=1:1rfjz0ip]spring 2013 pad.jpg[/attachment:1rfjz0ip]


Here is a close up of the board. I am a big fat chicken and was afraid to snap a photo with the unit on, so I shut off power to it before using the camera -- but the light that was on appears to be labeled HL2 or HLS and if you go from right to left on the photo, starting with the white things the wires all go into, then left to the row of black squares, then left to a row of lights. The light was the second one down in that first row of lights.
[attachment=0:1rfjz0ip]back of board.jpg[/attachment:1rfjz0ip]
 

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Here is a photo of the back of the board, using a mirror again, when the Service Heater light was on. Three lights lit up. I have shut off the power to machine and won't try it again. Do I need to shut off the gas to it? How bad is this gonna be (how long to fix/how much money if they say not covered by warranty)???

[attachment=0:bershpl5]back of board lit.jpg[/attachment:bershpl5]
 

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The unit should have a 2 year warranty so if you are with in that time it all should be covered. The trick is to get it to error when the repair guy is there.

BTW, don't be afraid to remove the top and flip it over why the unit is on. It's pretty safe.
 
Well, the Pentair-approved pool tech came back out today when I was at work. He called and left a message saying it is working now and that in order for it work I need to
a. have the pump on high
b. have the bonus suction port open in addition to the skimmer

He said with the pump on low the water was not exiting fast enough and it was boiling, causing the unit to shut down.

Does this sound correct? I can't imagine that all of you with 2 speed pumps are heating your pools on high. Plus, at the start of the year it was on high and quit and worked better (for a time) on low. Thoughts??
 
UPDATE:

Used heater without issue for 4 days - pump on high, both suctions open. I did not babysit it, but never heard it cycling and it heated in an acceptable time Wed, Thurs, Fri, Sat. This morning I went out and pool was at 81 (I had heater off overnight). Needed it raised to 89. Turned on heater and made sure pump on high and both suctions open. Fired up normally. But then it started cycling after 15 minutes or so. Cycled itself a few times -- went from heating (solid amber light), to looking for heat (flashing amber light), to re-firing itself and repeating this. After several cycles, it went to Service Heater - but then by itself started cycling again, but went to Service Heater again after one try. I took off the panel and the same three lights were on - see post above from June 16 at 10:02 am.

I will call Pentair-approved warranty repair guys Monday when they open, but I am getting extremely frustrated with this and the length of time we have been without a reliable heater. Today was supposed to be a big swim day that is now not going to happen. ANY thoughts on what the real problem could be (obviously the pump speed is not the issue).
 
The flexible pipe that runs to and from the pool looks to be 1 1/2"? I do know that the differential on those heaters is broader than most (temp difference between in and out). So it does need good flow to keep temps inside the heater manageable. I would say pump on low speed would definitely cause an HLS. 1 1/2" lines with pump on high a possibility as well , or (at least) intermittent as you are experiencing. I cannot explain why it ran without issue last year. Do the flexible lines that run to and from get stepped on?
 

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