Triac Based Current Sensing Relay

[sgoosman]

Hi Everyone,

After too much time without a current sensing relay, I finally added one to my system. I know I was living dangerously but life happens and this project fell down the list. Additionally, I struggled with the design limitations of the CR magnetic relays with an operating range of 1-10amps or 3-30, My pump runs from about 0.8 amps up to 6-8 amps, so I could have fallen out of the sensing range.

Recently came across a normally open relay that senses 1-50 amps and can handle 2.5 amps on the switching side at 240VAC which is enough power to run the SWG. Instead of a physical contact switch, the unit uses a triac for switching and can bleed current. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with a triac and if the current bleeding will have any long-term negative effects on the SWG electronics. Every time the unit starts and shuts off, it appears like the unit is experiencing a brownout whereas a relay should give a sharp on/off. Any thoughts if the triac will cause electronic issues?

Seems these relays are are often used to trigger dryer blower fans and some models are: Greystone CS-425-HC-5 and fantech ACCS40 to name a few.

Appreciate any thoughts on if this will cause me problems down the road.

 

[laprjns]

Hi Everyone,
Additionally, I struggled with the design limitations of the CR magnetic relays with an operating range of 1-10amps or 3-30, My pump runs from about 0.8 amps up to 6-8 amps, so I could have fallen out of the sensing range.

Wrapping the power line through the sensing coil two or more times reduces the sensing range proportionally. Just divide the sensing range by the number of wraps. For example, I wrap the power line through the sensing coil three times, reducing the 1-10amp range to 0.333 to 3.33amps.

 

[1poolman1]

Hi Everyone,

After too much time without a current sensing relay, I finally added one to my system. I know I was living dangerously but life happens and this project fell down the list. Additionally, I struggled with the design limitations of the CR magnetic relays with an operating range of 1-10amps or 3-30, My pump runs from about 0.8 amps up to 6-8 amps, so I could have fallen out of the sensing range.

Recently came across a normally open relay that senses 1-50 amps and can handle 2.5 amps on the switching side at 240VAC which is enough power to run the SWG. Instead of a physical contact switch, the unit uses a triac for switching and can bleed current. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with a triac and if the current bleeding will have any long-term negative effects on the SWG electronics. Every time the unit starts and shuts off, it appears like the unit is experiencing a brownout whereas a relay should give a sharp on/off. Any thoughts if the triac will cause electronic issues?

Seems these relays are are often used to trigger dryer blower fans and some models are: Greystone CS-425-HC-5 and fantech ACCS40 to name a few.

Appreciate any thoughts on if this will cause me problems down the road.

The problem with using a current sensing system is that it only senses current. That will be present anytime the motor runs whether it is moving water or not. I've removed them from two pools with booster-pump cleaners where they were installed as a way of not letting the booster run unless the main pump was also, but that assumes the main pump is moving water, which both times it wasn't and the booster pump was damaged.

 

[FlaJunkie]

The problem with using a current sensing system is that it only senses current. That will be present anytime the motor runs whether it is moving water or not. I've removed them from two pools with booster-pump cleaners where they were installed as a way of not letting the booster run unless the main pump was also, but that assumes the main pump is moving water, which both times it wasn't and the booster pump was damaged.

I am interested in this subject. I am using an Intellichlor IC 20. It does have a flow switch built in. The specs say:
Input: 90-130 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 220 Watts (2 AMP) or 220-240 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 220 Watts (1 AMP)
(I am uncertain if they wired it up for 115 or 240. I cannot check as I write this because it is raining outside.)

I have independent power to the pump, and I want to add a current-sensing circuit to the SWG power source.
I want to go as simply and as cheaply as possible.

I plan to use a CrocSee Miniature Current Switch, CS-TS0, Normally Open Amp Sensor Monitoring Relay, AC 1-50A. It has an N.O. Output: 2.5A @ 120 VAC. Its limitation is that in a 240V circuit, only one hotline is connected. Others here have remarked that they wanted to control both hotlines in a 240 circuit. That seems prudent.

So, if I am using 115, I can connect one of these. If I use 240, I plan to use two, wiring each hotline into one device.

These devices are $18 a piece and only work if an AC line is connected to the output pins. That should present no problem.

Thoughts?

 

[1poolman1]

I am interested in this subject. I am using an Intellichlor IC 20. It does have a flow switch built in. The specs say:
Input: 90-130 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 220 Watts (2 AMP) or 220-240 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 220 Watts (1 AMP)
(I am uncertain if they wired it up for 115 or 240. I cannot check as I write this because it is raining outside.)

I have independent power to the pump, and I want to add a current-sensing circuit to the SWG power source.
I want to go as simply and as cheaply as possible.

I plan to use a CrocSee Miniature Current Switch, CS-TS0, Normally Open Amp Sensor Monitoring Relay, AC 1-50A. It has an N.O. Output: 2.5A @ 120 VAC. Its limitation is that in a 240V circuit, only one hotline is connected. Others here have remarked that they wanted to control both hotlines in a 240 circuit. That seems prudent.

So, if I am using 115, I can connect one of these. If I use 240, I plan to use two, wiring each hotline into one device.

These devices are $18 a piece and only work if an AC line is connected to the output pins. That should present no problem.

Thoughts?

View attachment 526339

View attachment 526343

Will still only sense that the filter pump is running, won't tell you there is water flow.

 

[AW139]

Will still only sense that the filter pump is running, won't tell you there is water flow.

The idea is that the flow sensor will tell you if there is flow, but if that fails or gets stuck in the “flow” position, the relay will act as a backup. The two sensors in compliment each other, and each is the backup if the other fails.

 

[1poolman1]

The idea is that the flow sensor will tell you if there is flow, but if that fails or gets stuck in the “flow” position, the relay will act as a backup. The two sensors in compliment each other, and each is the backup if the other fails.

Belt and suspenders, I get it.

 

[FlaJunkie]

I received the parts yesterday and will take a shot at the initial layout and design today if it doesn't rain.

Although I read the data on the switches yesterday, today I see that there may be triad leakage current. I am wondering if a very small leak will do any damage to the Intellichlor power center.

Maybe it will need a dry contact relay after all?

 

[FlaJunkie]

I just reviewed the Intelichlor Power Center installation manual. It recommends a single timer be used for the pump motor and the SWG protected by a GFCI breaker.

I paid good money to a professional pool company to initially install this equipment. They apparently did not read the installation manual, since the pump motor power is independent of a timer set up for the SWG. I think the best solution for my setup is to hire an electrician to rewire the timer to control my pool pump and SWG, as the Intellichlor manual suggests.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I think the best solution for my setup is to hire an electrician to rewire the timer to control my pool pump and SWG, as the Intellichlor manual suggests.

Maj.

That is only true if you have a single speed pump.

If you have a VS pump, they are normally connected to constant AC power.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[FlaJunkie]

Maj.

That is only true if you have a single speed pump.

If you have a VS pump, they are normally connected to constant AC power.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Agreed. My current cheapy pump is set to 3200 RPM when it operates, so this presents no flow problem.

I did put the SWG and the pump on the same mechanical timer and everything is working great. On to the next issues.