Treat phosphates before early closing?

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Pat60

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Jun 11, 2016
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PA
This is my first yr with TFP ,and thanks to everyone’s help, I have gone from a green opening to a crystal clear pool all summer! From the day we opened, the water has read 5400 ppb of phosphates. Because of an extended vacation, and no one to tend the pool,we will close the week of 9/10. I’m thinking of treating the phosphates before closing. Is this a good idea? Any other suggestions.?
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If you follow the directions properly and use a commercial grade product (no PhosFree!) then it should work similarly to an algaecide. That's a somewhat high level though, your pool will get extremely cloudy after treatment and you will need to get all of it filtered out before closing. It could clog up your DE filter so you will want to be able to babysit it for a day or so.

As Dave said though, there are differing opinions on how well it would actually help and whether it might be easier to just clear up the green in the spring. It's entirely possible you go to the trouble of reducing your level and still open to the same thing next year as this year. If you do decide to do it though we would appreciate an update when you open as to whether you think it helped or not. It's certainly not a process you will see being recommended here any time soon, but having more information on others' experiences is invaluable to the overall knowledge base of TFP.
 
Pat60 said:
Well, I guess I thought the getting rid of algae food would increase my chance of not opening to a green mess.
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Just as big a part of opening to a clear pool is when you close/open. Don't close until the water is cold. 60 degrees minimum, but the lower the better. Then, open again when the water is still cold. Cold stunts the ability of algae to reproduce.
 
A great big PLUS to what Tim5055 posted above. Time and time again we read reports from people who open too late and have a green mess and then just as many reports about folks who open as early as possible and VERY often to a clear pool. I think the anecdotal evidence we have accumulated makes that the single biggest factor in a clear opening.
 
If I may ask.........how long is your "extended vacation" going to be?? I'm unsure where in PA you are however if your weather will be like ours here in Eastern Ohio we'll be looking at 80-90 degree weather right around the time you're talking of closing which will greatly result in a green opening next Spring.
 
We have a solid lock down cover. We will back from vacation on 9/30 , but our pool is surrounded by tress and the amount of leaves falling already require emptying the skimmers twice a day at minimum, and this is without a storm.
i understand from all my reading at TFP , the best closing scenario would be wait until the the temps drop, but that’s not possible, we will not be home to do pool care. I was hoping that treating the phosphates would lessen the “green opening”.
I would follow the TFP for closing , polyquant and chlorine. We can open before temps rise.
 
duraleigh said:
A great big PLUS to what Tim5055 posted above. Time and time again we read reports from people who open too late and have a green mess and then just as many reports about folks who open as early as possible and VERY often to a clear pool. I think the anecdotal evidence we have accumulated makes that the single biggest factor in a clear opening.
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The tree line is a great indicator to open close or chlorinate.

If the leaves are green a UV penetrant covered pool can turn green. On the flip side, when the trees start to show green spring buds it’s algae time.

When it comes to low end stagnant UV penetrable mesh covers “green by Halloween.”

This is from a New England perspective, but photosynthesis is photosynthesis in any region.
 

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Pat60 said:
We have a solid lock down cover. We will back from vacation on 9/30 , but our pool is surrounded by tress and the amount of leaves falling already require emptying the skimmers twice a day at minimum, and this is without a storm.
i understand from all my reading at TFP , the best closing scenario would be wait until the the temps drop, but that’s not possible, we will not be home to do pool care. I was hoping that treating the phosphates would lessen the “green opening”.
I would follow the TFP for closing , polyquant and chlorine. We can open before temps rise.
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Ahhhhhh the leaves. I know them well. One option that could be tossed out would be to particularly close before you leave for vacation by installing the cover and adding some bleach. Then once you return pull the cover back, clear the pool, and then fully close by winterizing the equipment and such. This could be done in Oct when the temps are still warm enough that you’re able to be outside but cold enough that it helps slow the algae growth.

As for phosphate removers, Some of what I’ll offer below is going to be based on my opinion and my personal testing. It flows somewhat against the grain from TFP.

I get the amount of work that leaves present and understand the desire to close before they start to fall. I normally cover mine just about the time you’re returning with a leaf net to avoid the same headache you’re predicting. Phosphate removers could in theory help reduce the chance of a green opening however will add some cost to your budget. The largest bit of advice I can offer is to skip the cheap pool store rubbish and head towards the stronger stuff like a phosphate remover from Orenda or SeaClear. For the bang for your buck they’ll offer the best deal. In my personal testing I have seen some “forgiveness” in algae growth by using a phosphate remover however I’ve never tested it over the winter, let alone a closing in warm water like you’re suggesting. Seeing a phosphate level as high as yours please anticipate some clouding to occur but it’ll clear up in a day or two, so make sure you add the chemical a few days before closing if you chose this route.
 
Pat60 said:
We have a solid lock down cover. We will back from vacation on 9/30 , but our pool is surrounded by tress and the amount of leaves falling already require emptying the skimmers twice a day at minimum, and this is without a storm.
i understand from all my reading at TFP , the best closing scenario would be wait until the the temps drop, but that’s not possible, we will not be home to do pool care. I was hoping that treating the phosphates would lessen the “green opening”.
I would follow the TFP for closing , polyquant and chlorine. We can open before temps rise.
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Are you closing your own pool, or someone is being hired? The best advice is to cover until you return (SLAM prior) and then close upon returning. SLAM again, pass the overnight, Poly-Quat and then close. With a solid cover, closing early is fine as long as you are will to open the second to last week of April and no later. I always close the last week of September to first week of October and then open no later then last week of April. Pool is never green and clears up within hours and the vacuuming takes another hour on the initial startup. The key to your success could be that solid cover.

A lot has to do with the cover. I have 2 friends with Mesh Covers. Pools closed same time. One had no chlorine and opened up to a clear pool. Other had chlorine and opened up to algae. One is a better quality mesh, no matter how you look at it as one had no chlorine, while other closed with a level in the 20's. A solid cover is a lot better, but if closing early, you should use the Poly-Quat 60.
 
We have a pool guy who opens and closes the pool, we just can’t handle the cover. This year, because of the need for the early close, I am leaning towards using the commercial phosphate remover the week before closing , following TFP closing protocol , then opening early. I will report back in spring.
Once again, thanks to everyone for reading and helping. I enjoy reading many posts; the green to clear threads and all the new construction... seeing all the different and beautiful pool designs!
 
I am leaning towards using the commercial phosphate remover the week before closing
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You may have answered this before, but where did you and how did you test your levels? What test kit? It appears that at a level of 5,400, you will need one quart for treatment of phosphates. About $45 on Amazon. If this was my pool, I would probably close it with the high levels. Remember the food for algae is there only if you get algae. If your pool is covered, perform the SLAM, allow levels to drift down and add one quart of Poly-Quat, I believe you will be fine. Remember that the algaecide will consume the chlorine levels, so allow to drop to around 5-8 ppm before adding the algaecide. The PR remover is completely optional. This will be an interesting study to see if you have any issues come Spring.
 
The phosphate reading was from a pool store after opening. I have a well and I wanted to have a reading for the cooper and iron. (Each was 0.1ppm) This was a local pool store I found that sells 12.5 % liquid chlorine ...I can handle this size container, not the 5 gal. I had not used this pool store before ( used the bioguard products from a different place) and interestingly the new place did not recommend I treat the phosphates, just get my chlorine up and keep it up. Previously at the Bioguard place I was spending lots of money and making adjustments for any incremental change in any and all readings.... so $45 doesn’t seem that bad!
Also interesting ..I have the closing report from last sept. From the biguard place and my CYA was 91 and the only parameter that didn’t need an adjustment before closing! With my Taylor kit this year on opening my CYA was 0, and thanks to everyone here, I understood why,and how to fix it ,and enjoyed a sparkling pool all summer, saving lots of money in the process!
 
I have a left over bottle of Algae All 60 from Bioguard.(actually I have 2 bottle!) is that the equivalent of Poly- Quat? If not, can someone let me know where to get that exact product...see many choices on amazon, but not that specific brand.
 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9VN4XE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This is what I used last year. I'm going to use the 2nd quart it came with this year. This is very much so OPTIONAL and I don't start to add it until like November (roughly 16ounces, and then maybe the other 16 ounces when the ice thaws in spring) since I heard chlorine will go after it so I use it once there are minimal levels of chlorine since I close at "shock" level.

I could very well be wasting money, but gives me some peace of mind in the winter even though algae shouldn't be able to grow anyways.

Brand doesn't matter just the ingredient. poly(oxyethylene (dimeythyliminio)(dimethyliminio)ethylene dichloride) 60.0%
 
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