To robot or not to robot?

[jark87]

I’m a big fan of my pressure side cleaner (Polaris 380). It’s 15 years old and I’ve never had to do a thing to the cleaner itself. It remains in the water 24/7, does it’s job when asked, doesn’t need me to do anything, and is ultra-reliable, having never missed a day of work. I can easily pull it out of the pool if we’re having a party. Just a day or 2 ago, I was afraid it died, but the problem was the pressure relief valve that connects to the wall socket - a $20 five minute fix. If it ever does die, I’ll gladly buy another one. As far as electricity usage goes, I don’t run mine often enough for that to be an issue - maybe a couple of hours per week at the most, and my pool is surrounded by trees. That brings up another advantage - large debris bag for those days when a storm knocks lots of leaves into the pool. I know it doesn’t scrub the walls like the robots (or the Quattro) but my Wall Whale brush makes that a piece of cake, even with one end of the pool being 10’ deep.

 

[Jeff J.]

I'm thinking about a pool cleaner, but I want to spend less than $500 on it. I have an in-ground vinyl 12x24 that goes to six feet. I'm thinking of buying on ebay, I don't care if it's used. If could get one for $300 something even better. What do you guys and gals think?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Depends on the quality of the seller on eBay but you could wind up spending $300 and not getting more than a season or two out of it. These robots are not repairable (I have tried). So if the motor dies you’ll have to replace that and they currently cost $450 which is more than the robot is worth.

 

[tcat]

I had a pressure side Kreepy 12 years ago. Used it for about 3 years and hated it. I bought an Aquabot Rapids and it's going strong after 8 seasons. No repairs! Only thing I don't like is cord tangle. So I'm going to buy another just like it with a swivel cord as a backup. Aquabot is now owned by BWT, so getting a B200. Same baskets, lots of volume. It's not excellent on walls, but gets everything off the bottom including dust.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I had a pressure side Kreepy 12 years ago. Used it for about 3 years and hated it. I bought an Aquabot Rapids and it's going strong after 8 seasons. No repairs! Only thing I don't like is cord tangle. So I'm going to buy another just like it with a swivel cord as a backup. Aquabot is now owned by BWT, so getting a B200. Same baskets, lots of volume. It's not excellent on walls, but gets everything off the bottom including dust.

Have you ever had chance to look at the motor/drive assembly? Does it look repairable? How is BWT with parts?

 

[tcat]

Have you ever had chance to look at the motor/drive assembly? Does it look repairable? How is BWT with parts?

I just ordered it, we'll see. I never had an issue, so no clue how they deal with parts. Since my 8 year old one uses same power supply and same baskets, I have spare parts. Motor seems very accessable. 5% Target card discount makes it a bargain (less than I paid for the original 8 years ago)! Not as good on waterline since it has center brush, but I brush walls and wl occasionally anyway.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I just ordered it, we'll see. I never had an issue, so no clue how they deal with parts. Since my 8 year old one uses same power supply and same baskets, I have spare parts. Motor seems very accessable. 5% Target card discount makes it a bargain (less than I paid for the original 8 years ago)! Not as good on waterline since it has center brush, but I brush walls and wl occasionally anyway.

Looks like it might be serviceable…. would be interesting to see it in pieces.

As for wall brushing - I honestly believe it’s a totally overhyped aspect about robots. A human being with a wall brush will do a much more effective job brushing down a wall than a robot will ever do. The robot brushes are soft rubber … real wall brushes are steel or stiff nylon bristles. Completely different materials. And as for waterline tiles, my Dolphin robot had zero impact on waterline tile calcium issues. At best all it ever did was breakup the debris clumps that always hang out at the water so they either dropped to the bottom or get picked up by the skimmer. Again, it’s one of those “features” that everyone breathlessly describes as “so awesome” when the reality is that it’s closer to a gimmick. Vacuuming the bottom of the pool is the only function a robot needs to do well. Everything else is marketing.

 

[Geebot]

The Dolphin S200 weighs about 18lbs, dry. All That You Want to Know about Dolphin S200 | Maytronics

The approved removal method is to pull it by the cord until it reaches the surface then grab the handle and extract it. It begins to expel water immediately and by the time you have it on land it's nearly at its dry weight. Joyfulnoise may have his reasons for disliking robots but they are enormous timesavers. They do not last indefinitely, but what does? My first purchased one lasted until its fifth season and my newest one is in its fifth season and still going strong. Comes out to less than $150/year for what I consider to be an enormous convenience.

 

[SoDel]

The view of the robot cost might depend on your region. The going rate for pool service where I live is over $100 per week, and they also rarely (if ever) brush (and use test strips most visits), never saw them add a drop of acid to the pool, basically they leaf net, vac and see you next week. My friends who have pools in Florida pay around $100 per month. For where I am, I see a $1,000 robot that lasts five years as still very cheap. For mine, I sprung for the cart and I can set it up or put it away in a minute or two. Another minute or two to clean the basket screens. I use it usually the day after I cut the lawn and it eats up maybe five or ten minutes of my time per week.

 

[tcat]

The view of the robot cost might depend on your region. The going rate for pool service where I live is over $100 per week, and they also rarely (if ever) brush (and use test strips most visits), never saw them add a drop of acid to the pool, basically they leaf net, vac and see you next week. My friends who have pools in Florida pay around $100 per month. For where I am, I see a $1,000 robot that lasts five years as still very cheap. For mine, I sprung for the cart and I can set it up or put it away in a minute or two. Another minute or two to clean the basket screens. I use it usually the day after I cut the lawn and it eats up maybe five or ten minutes of my time per week.

I dropped the pool guy after a month of watching nothing... and that was at $150/mo. Can't believe anyone would pay $300-$400! That should include all chemicals, all algae fixes, brushing, accurate testing, burned out equipment... and if it did, it would still be too much!

 

[SoDel]

I dropped the pool guy after a month of watching nothing... and that was at $150/mo. Can't believe anyone would pay $300-$400! That should include all chemicals, all algae fixes, brushing, accurate testing, burned out equipment... and if it did, it would still be too much!

Yeah, the robot is cheap compared to that. We had two different companies for the two previous years. First year was the PB and they stopped offering maintenance service so we were forced to shop around the next year. Yup, about $110 / week is the going rate. The pool was always clean but the chemistry was confusing. TA approaching 200, CH around the same, pH high always off the scale, etc. Never saw them add anything to the pool (having learned now how jacked they managed the chemistry, I conclude they figured they wouldn’t have to pay for an eventual replaster or premature equipment failure so didn’t care much). This year we wanted to open early and close late and at around $440+ per month, we decided I was just going to have to figure it all out and we would do it ourselves. The robot makes it easy, worth what it cost.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The value also depends on your pool setup. In some situations a robot cleaner may be warranted as many people either have pools that had no cleaner in mind when they were built OR they are building pools and choosing not to do a dedicated pressure or suction port (which locks them into a robot). I happen to have a pool with a dedicated suction wall port. It costs me no more additional money to run the suction cleaner when the pool pump is running to skim and generate chlorine. After switching to a robot I tried to lower the pump speed and change schedules but I did not like the results (less skimming from the skimmer). So the suction cleaner doesn’t really change the cost equation at all. Funny enough, it probably cost me MORE (albeit a very tiny amount more) to run the robot independently than to simply keep the suction cleaner tied to the same schedule as the pool pump. The suction cleaner has a large leaf canister that collects the big debris and I only have to empty it when I feel like it, it rarely “fills up”. The suction cleaner lives in the pool 24/7 unlike my robot which I diligently took in and out of the pool all the time (initially). So the suction cleaner results in less time spent cleaning the cleaner.

All in all, a suction side cleaner is a much better option for my pool setup. And it won’t cost me the purchase of new one every 5 years to keep it, they are dirt cheap to repair. So again, in my pool, I get similar cleaning results between the two, less required interaction with the cleaner and little or no additional expense. The suction cleaner wins, hands down.

People in similar situations to mine, ie, dedicated plumbing for running a cleaner (either suction or pressure type), need to look carefully at their setup and not get hooked on the “Wow Factor” of running a robot. There is never any reasonable ROI with cleaners of any kind and they all come with a cost. It’s important to analyze all those factors and make a rational decision. Some people place a high value on luxury and ease of use because their life circumstances can be complicated and they’d like to take things off their plate. Others, like me, want value and longevity and don’t like wasting money on poorly made things or don’t like filling up landfills with junk. As the old saying goes … YMMV.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Matt, is100% correct that robots are not for everyone. I will say however, that my pull it out of my rear estimate is that 85% of pool owners that have switched to a robot will never be going back to a water powered cleaner again.

The main problem is that you can't really know beforehand. You have to use a robot for a while before knowing if it works better for you or not.

I have three pools and three robots. I love them and will buy replacement robots when they fail. My pools have salt cells that I consider consumables as I know that they will only last 5 to 7 years. I also consider my robots as consumables as they too will only last 5 to 7 years.

So, who are you going to trust? Me, the old guy who can't spell, or the Khemical expert with grass growing out of his head.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[tcat]

Well, I loved my Aquabot 4wd so much, I bought another, with old one for backup. New one has swivel cord and costs less (under $600). My first is on season 9 with no repairs. It and my recently purchased Betta2, since my skimmer never skims much regardless of pump speed, makes life easy!

 

[Robinlbb]

Well poop! That's a no go. Very awkward pulling stuff out of pool let alone 35 pounds...even with my little red wagon to haul it around!

Guess I'll continue to vacuum manually, just do it in stages when my shoulder complains. I actually find vacuuming early in the morning or at dusk to be relaxing (when the sun's on the pool the reflections make it hard to see the bottom.) And, I was forced to buy a new vacuum head - took the old one (ummm...probably 30 plus years old ) and not only were the brushes deteriorated but there were rusty wires sticking out where there used to be brushes. I replaced with the same Hayward super vac head. Figured with that kind of life span, worth the extra bucks over generic.

Thanks, all. You've saved me $1000. Hmmmm...wonder how much it would cost to have renovation pavers put on too of the concrete and old, brittle, cracking plastic bullnose coping...

Just got kicks, here's the new pool liner mostly cleaned up with sparkly water.

Looks good! Have you considered a suction cleaner instead? I have the Zodiac g3 cleaner and it works great. I leave it in the pool, so no lifting involved. Much less expensive than robotic cleaners and easy to get replacement parts when needed.

 

[amymeme]

Since the new liner has been in and the pool fully operational (June 26) I've had to vacuum twice. Today will be the 3rd - there's a bit of silt (or perhaps DE) that collects in the corner between the floor and wall on one side of the deep end. I have to look carefully to know it's there. Pine tree debris gets in there when the winds are brisk and a bit of grass when husband mows but both of these are promptly removed by the skimmer. So maybe I really don't need anything but my manual vacuum.

Possibly what makes the difference is running my filter during the day rather than at night. I mentioned in passing to the liner installers that I usually have an algae problem which I attributed to the loss of the main drain to mud sucker. He asked about the filter running at night or during the day (I use pucks until the CYA reaches 30 which is most of our short season.) We used to have a day night electric rate so unless people were swimming (not often) the filter only ran at night. He suggested changing to day filtering as algae grows with sunlight (duh, I knew that, just didn't put the two together) But, for some reason, with deregulation in NYS, we no longer have a day night rate so it'll makes no difference when I run the filter. So far, so good - we'll see what August brings.

Anyway - not sure I can justify cost of robot when I'm vacuuming maybe once a week for 15-30 minutes. Suction side cleaner not really appropriate - this pool was built in 1977, only suction port is my skimmer and the pump is a 3/4 HP and purchased in 1989.

Thanks for all the comments pro and con.

 

[SDor]

If you don't mind vacuuming, don't buy a robot. They are a rather expensive and may only last 5 years (give or take). It's up to you how much your time and effort are worth. Many swear by them, others not so much.

About running the pump day vs. night, since you're using pucks, you need to run the pump to put chlorine in your pool so maybe there's something to that. Filtering clears dead algae. It doesn't do much with live algae. If you're getting algae, then (most likely) your chlorine level is too low for your CYA level (and I guess low chlorine during the day is probably worse than low chlorine at night, but both should be avoided).

How are you measuring CYA? The pool store and test strips are often not reliable. When I used pucks, I could only go late May - mid August before my CYA was unmanageably high, but I had a busy pool with my young kids and their friends.

In the end, do what works.

 

[amymeme]

I use a Taylor black dot cya test. Pool store testing is not feasible - 25 mile trip. In general, my pool is opened the first week of June and closed first week of September so not a lot of time for CYA to build up. Right now, the pool has a new liner, new well water. High TA, pH of 78. My chlorine has been running 3-5 unless I set the chlorinator to 0. I've not had any algae problem yet. I'm hoping the pucks will eat up some of the TA and lower the pH closest to 7.6 (husband want 7.4 - says that's closer to physiologic) first test on CYA was maybe 20. So far I've dropped the TA from 260 to 230 after almost 3 weeks of pucks and 3 cups of acid. Usually we get loads of of rain, which I was planning on to lower the pH/TA a bit. Not this year, we are abnormally dry and I am currently adding my 3rd round of inch makeup for evaporation water. So that's not helping my TA any. But, since using the pucks, not really critical. Overall, I'm satisfied with the way things are going at the moment - pool is crystal clear and soon and family day really comfortable on the eyes.