Tile Imperfections??

[Fina2417]

My PB just finished grouting the waterline/spillway tile and coping. We went with a 1"x1" porcelain tile and I'm noticing some imperfections with alignment, cuts, etc. The issues are primarily at the corners or joints. My husband thinks that the issues are small and won't even be noticed by anybody aside from us. I definitely don't want to be perceived by my PB as being a difficult customer (especially since we still have a ways to go with the build), so before I mention it to my PB, wanted to get other opinions as well.

Has everybody else experienced some smaller imperfections in their tile finish? Is it inevitable that there will be some misalignment, etc. - especially when dealing with 1"x1" tile? Thanks in advance!!

 

[martuned]

They can redo that section only. I had 0 cut on my corner of the spa. They sort of cut rows like an octopus legs so the middle can be spaced out and bend.
https://i.imgur.com/nr34PT2h.jpg

 

[Dirk]

I don't actually see anything wrong with the vertical corners, inner or outer. You might have to explain what you don't like. I know if I went swimming in that pool I wouldn't even notice anything on either of those, and I'm at least as ocd as you (no offense intended, we see things others don't). I'm not sure how else they could have been done. The tiles on the outer corner all end on either full or half tiles. That's kinda the best way to do that, I think. The inner corner ends where it ends, the setter is at the mercy of the dimensions of the pool for that.

The horizontal miter is unfortunate. I think because the rows of the 1" tiles are offset by 50% (as opposed to them all aligning in a 1" grid), that that's what a 45° miter is going to look like. The rows actually do align pretty well, but because of the way each row ends, you get what you get. Run your finger along each corresponding grout line until your fingers touch at the miter joint. You'll see each set of lines intersects the 45° grout line pretty well. Again, I can't imagine how that could look better, but maybe a better tile setter has a trick for that?

I think part of the problem is that you chose a tile that has such an obvious and even grid to it, and had it installed into an environment that is anything but square and even. Pool surfaces are blown in and hand troweled. There's not a lot of precision available...

 

[Qwijib0]

the top two, eh.

that third one though, that looks ridiculous. With a 1x1 they should have been able to space them out a bit over the run so that they meet perfectly with no cut required.

 

[Dirk]

I'm still staring at your bench. I think the less noticeable way to have those two benches meet, would have been to run the tile all the way straight out to the end, then butt the other run of tile up against it. You'd have all those half-tiles, but I think that might look better than the 45° cut.

Also, by replacing any white half-tiles with blue, the half tiles would be less noticeable.

Keep in mind, it's never going to look as bad as it does now, out of the water. Once this is underwater, whatever bothers you will be considerably less obvious.

 

[Qwijib0]

like this, rather than the miter

 

[MyAZPool]

This is just my own personal observation.

I don't see much of an issue with Photo #2. #1 is kind of sorry, but agree with Qwijib0, #3 is pretty awful from my perspective.

For me, I would be unhappy with #1 and very unhappy with #3 but then I am cursed with an "eagle eye" for those kind of imperfections ("attention-to-detail" is my major "fault". Just ask my wife ).

Agree with Dirk, that some of your concerns may look less obvious underwater. However, If you think that it will "bug" you after your build is complete, then now is the time to make the correction. Otherwise, you may just have to live with it.

 

[Fina2417]

Thank you everybody for the feedback...really do appreciate it! One thing I wasn't following is the 0 cuts at the corner. Made me realize that it might not be clear from the original pictures that the corner is the top view of the corner of the spa's reverse negative edge - so it doesn't lay flat. That being said, there is no way to avoid the cuts, right? My thought was just as Dirk mentioned - the PB should have at least seen that it would look best if the white tiles were swapped out with blue ones so it's not as noticeable.

For the other two issues...they fall within the top 3" of waterline, so might not actually be submerged in water...not sure if straightening those tiles out is a simple fix or not. Just reluctant to put a strain on the relationship with the PB, thereby paving a contentious road ahead...ugh.

 

[jatkinson]

Sloppy tile work. Rip it out and do it right. The builder should agree if he takes any pride in what he produces.

 

[Dirk]

View attachment 87568 like this, rather than the miter

That weaving wouldn't work for the OP's 1x1 tiles with the subway-tile offset. It would have if the tiles were in a 1x1 grid. Your example works because they're 1x2 tiles and because the tiles are offset. If there was no offset then that weave wouldn't work.

I personally would not let go something that I didn't like or want to prevent a possibility of how the contractor might react. I think it prudent to consider the fallout, but rather than avoid a confrontation, use that forethought to prepare a good way to present what the problem is, so that you both can seek a reasonable solution. The difference between "Hey, I hate your work, rip it all out!" and "You know, I think that corner is really going to bother me. It just doesn't look right to me. Can we find a better way to make those two surfaces meet? I'd really appreciate it." In other words, give him the opportunity to do the right thing, rather than assume he won't. Then if he doesn't, you can escalate the tone. Or perhaps negotiate with him, as in: "Hey, can we work something out to get that redone, maybe split the labor?"

You might also try to illustrate a better way to do that corner. Draw it out. Model it on a computer. Use legos, whatever. If you can show him how you'd like it, it might go more smoothly. You might also find that by doing that exercise, any alternative layout is even less pleasing to you, then you could feel better about leaving it alone, before you ruffle any feathers.

 

[BMK]

I would not hesitate or be reluctant to point this out to the builder if it really bothers you. In addition to everything Dirk said about the best approach, it will also kind of show the PB where the bar is set as to what quality of work you consider acceptable moving forward. That should actually benefit both of you.

 

[domct203]

I could live with #1 and #2, in fact I would worry that the repair would be obvious.

#3 however, looks terrible. I would definitely discuss my options with the builder there.

 

[Dirk]

Fina2417, in your original photo of the benches, on the left bench, the back few rows, it looks like the tiles are not square, that they get progressively thinner, almost down to 1" x 1/2". Is that there? Or an illusion of the photography? That could be the lens, but it doesn't seem to affect the right side, or at least not by as much.

 

[Dirk]

I'm not sure either of these is actually possible or not, based on what's already in place, and how much they'd have to rip up, but this would give you an idea of what a couple of alternate layouts could look like. One is just cut off at the end of the bench, the other is cut off before a last row of 1x1, to eliminate the 1x1/2 from the edge.

Keep in mind that these little tiles come on some sort of backing, which speeds the process but also keeps the tiles aligned. When you have to start laying individual 1x1 tiles that are not affixed to the backing, then you can start to get into alignment issues, and the skill of the setter really comes into play.

And this is assuming the benches are actually square to each other, which might not be the case. If they're not square, then the 45° miter might be the lesser of evils.

If you or anyone else has an alternate idea for a layout, let me know and I'll give it a try...

 

[Qwijib0]

That weaving wouldn't work for the OP's 1x1 tiles with the subway-tile offset. It would have if the tiles were in a 1x1 grid. Your example works because they're 1x2 tiles and because the tiles are offset. If there was no offset then that weave wouldn't work.

I personally would not let go something that I didn't like or want to prevent a possibility of how the contractor might react. I think it prudent to consider the fallout, but rather than avoid a confrontation, use that forethought to prepare a good way to present what the problem is, so that you both can seek a reasonable solution. The difference between "Hey, I hate your work, rip it all out!" and "You know, I think that corner is really going to bother me. It just doesn't look right to me. Can we find a better way to make those two surfaces meet? I'd really appreciate it." In other words, give him the opportunity to do the right thing, rather than assume he won't. Then if he doesn't, you can escalate the tone. Or perhaps negotiate with him, as in: "Hey, can we work something out to get that redone, maybe split the labor?"

You might also try to illustrate a better way to do that corner. Draw it out. Model it on a computer. Use legos, whatever. If you can show him how you'd like it, it might go more smoothly. You might also find that by doing that exercise, any alternative layout is even less pleasing to you, then you could feel better about leaving it alone, before you ruffle any feathers.

I don't have any 1x1s handy to play with, but I think it's still possible with a little grout line fudging. In the photo you can see almost half of the miters split a tile in half-- and if the rest of the row were just tweaked slightly it could have been a full one.

Even if the miter were the way to go, the tile cuts are sloppy. I can't stop staring at the corner, where it curves away from the actual corner. What?

 

[Dirk]

I don't have any 1x1s handy to play with, but I think it's still possible with a little grout line fudging. In the photo you can see almost half of the miters split a tile in half-- and if the rest of the row were just tweaked slightly it could have been a full one.

Even if the miter were the way to go, the tile cuts are sloppy. I can't stop staring at the corner, where it curves away from the actual corner. What?

I think if this was not a pool, and the corner was perfectly square, and the tiles aligned perfectly, then he could have replaced some of the cut halfs with a full tile. That would have looked better. But every other intersection would still be some sort of mutant chunks.

Have a look at picture #1 again, right wall, 1st tile, second row from the top. See that skewed tile? I'm guessing that one popped off the backing, or maybe the one that was there chipped, whatever. That's an example of an individual tile "smushed" into place, and the skill level of the setter, or at least his attention to detail. If he starts setting individually cut and placed tiles to get that corner to meet better, you can imagine how much worse it could end up looking.

I'm not saying what was done is as good as it could have been. I think there are some angles at play that made the seam difficult to look right, coupled with the challenge of making 45° cuts across a 1x1 sheet of tiles, maybe four or more depending on how wide the stuff comes, then he had to fit them all together, and probably had to place at least some tiny little triangles that fell off the backing, etc. If I had to guess, whoever did that was very pleased with himself, that it turned out as well as it did. If the OP goes back to him now and says they want it even better, he's going to freak. I don't say that to discourage the OP from asking for what they want, I'm just saying it could have been a whole lot worse. A whole lot. I don't set tile, I'm only guessing at what is involved. But I can't imagine that joint was easy. And I can't imagine the two underlying sections of gunite come together in such a way that make setting tile on them a breeze.

And unless they're going to rip is all out, I'm not sure any fix would be better aligned, especially if the setter has to start placing a bunch of tiles individually. I was going to suggest that at least the white ones that were cut be replaced with blue, that would help a lot, especially when water is running over them. But then I tried to imagine how one would cut the little 1x1 tiles into the perfect triangles needed to pull that off.

 

[Fina2417]

Thank you so much for taking the time to provide options...not sure if my earlier comment was missed, but I still don't see how this would work, since it's not a bench...it's the top of the spillway (reverse negative edge) of the spa. So neither end actually sits flat...they're at a slight angle (high on the outside edge and lower on the inside edge of the spa. So, I think cuts are unavoidable?? But maybe I'm missing something

I do think your comment earlier about the tile folks at least making the effort to switch out the cut white tiles with blue should have been a no brainer...boo .

My thought exactly with what a "fix" might actually look like, based on what was originally installed...afraid any modification might actually turn out worse...eek!

 

[Dirk]

I did understand that the tile was on top of the wall, but I missed that each surface is at an angle. That explains why the tiles are aligning (rather, mis-aligning) the way they are. The miter is the only solution, each individual tile has to stop at that seam, they can't run past it as Qwijib0 and I were suggesting. Scratch all those ideas. I suppose they could dig out those few white tiles, and replace with blue. But, again, I'm not sure how one cuts a little, tiny 1x1 tile into an even smaller triangle!! Not without swearing like a sailor the whole time!!

Well, all I can add at this point is a tack I've suggested to others. No pool is perfect. Like our children, they are all born with little birth marks. We love 'em, and embrace 'em, just the same. My pool has several such birth marks. One of them I inflicted on it myself (a permanent acid burn from CYA dosing on day 2!!). Nothing to be done about mine, I just look at 'em every once in a while, sigh, and move on. Your pool's blemish is what it is, and ironically I suppose, your tile choice is at least partially to blame. It was unfortunate that nobody realized until after it was set what that seam was going to look like, or how it might have otherwise been handled.

Have a nice chat with the PB, tell him the corner is really bugging you, and ask him if he can replace those few white tiles. See what he says. Personally, I wouldn't have them rip out any more than that. It'll likely just look different, not better. Take comfort in the fact that no one but you will ever notice. No one has ever noticed any of mine!!

 

[sktn77a]

I'd ask them to replace the 4 cut white tiles at the miter joint with blue or brown, depending on the color of the tile on the opposite side. Won't be perfect, but much less visible.

 

[jaymantx]

My tiler didn't cut the 1X1 tiles in 45 degree angle at all. I was quite surprised to see it, but it worked out well. Sorry, I don't have a close up picture.

Only thing is if you do this, grout lines from the top surface to one of the side of the walls will not match as you can see below. It bothered me like a 5 seconds, but I moved on. Glad I did, because you hardly notice those grout lines because my tiles give off so many variations of colors that they blur the grout lines. Also light reflection from water flowing over hide them as well.