thinking of emptying pool

[outdoorsgal]

Yes add acid to target 7.2... you will be gone for a few days and it will creep up in your absence.

Turning the SWG from 40% to 70% and adding a little more stabilizer is a good idea. When you return, take the time to check all your numbers again. If FC appears high on your return, lower the percentage by 10 - to 60% - and monitor to see if FC stabilizes at your target per the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA].

I think lowering TA to 60 will help stabilize the pH. pH will still creep up, but at a slower rate. You will still need to test and monitor FC and pH daily.

got it. great info. thx. i'll do my best to remeasure and post saturday.

 

[outdoorsgal]

I was finally able to get a full testing done today minus the salt since I feel pretty confident that's stayed steady. I was interested to see that being gone 3 days the pH was at 7.5 when I got back. I had brought it to 7.2 but it's a nice treat to have it not rise so fast like before emptying the pool. Last night I checked it and it was 7.8 I realized I was late for work and didn't add acid but not having had time to do a full check I remembered 7.6/7.8 was where it needed to be for now, I added a chug of chlorine when I saw FC was down to 3 and didn't add acid when I got home. This morn unfortunately pH rose to 8.2 so I should've added acid yesterday. I also saw check system light on last night and was surprised to think the salt cell was already full of calcium when I've been much better this time around and new water... I was happy to be able to check the salt cell by myself for the first time since I hand tightened it myself the last time and put silicone on threads. There was zero calcium! There were a few leafs so I wonder if that's what went wrong? I've been thinking I might need to backwash soon. Weird to get leaves in the salt cell? (just a few small pieces).

I was also noticing there is no flow on low. I'd like to learn how to switch my percentage to RPMs so if someone know pls let me know otherwise I'll look in the manual or call pb later. My warranty also ends in a week or two for many things and I noticed the tile guy didn't replace all of the cracked tiles and didn't do the greatest job on the grout so I"ll see what they replied about that.

As for testing this morn:
85 degrees
FC=4
CC=0
TA=80
CH=375
CYA=60
salt 3400 from 529
CSI=.47

I added 16 oz CYA before trip last Tuesday. Now, with CYA reading low I went ahead and added 30 oz CYA today. I hope I don't end up overdoing it as I seem to be lingering about 60 even when adding more CYA.

I also added 38 oz acid to get TA down which would take my CSI to -.49.

thanks.

 

[proavia]

Keep working at getting the TA down to 60. As you know, this will take acid additions. Keep the pH towards the lower end of the recommended range until TA is 60. Then let pH rise to upper end of range and see how long it stays stable. Remember to check CSI number in PoolMath tokeep that in range.

Monitor CH - and as it rises adjust pH to keep CSI within range also.

As your CYA rises to your new target - you said you just added more - use the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] for your new target FC. Add liquid to dose for this new FC target level. You may need to tweak your SWG percentage to mantain the FC at or slightly above target levels.

Has the filter pressure risen to 20% - 25% above clean pressure? If so, time to clean (or at least backwash/recharge) the filter.

Stay on top of testing and adjusting - it actually will SAVE TIME in the long run. Make the time and protect your investment.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Keep working at getting the TA down to 60. As you know, this will take acid additions. Keep the pH towards the lower end of the recommended range until TA is 60. Then let pH rise to upper end of range and see how long it stays stable. Remember to check CSI number in PoolMath tokeep that in range.

Monitor CH - and as it rises adjust pH to keep CSI within range also.

As your CYA rises to your new target - you said you just added more - use the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] for your new target FC. Add liquid to dose for this new FC target level. You may need to tweak your SWG percentage to mantain the FC at or slightly above target levels.

Has the filter pressure risen to 20% - 25% above clean pressure? If so, time to clean (or at least backwash/recharge) the filter.

Stay on top of testing and adjusting - it actually will SAVE TIME in the long run. Make the time and protect your investment.

thx Gene. R u saying I should be closer to the 7.2 range until I get TA to 60 or the "just under zero" CSI range?

With the higher CYA, r u saying I need to add chlorine when it's 4 and recommended is 5 for 70 CYA or are you saying I'll need to start adding more chlorine the higher the CYA? The last thing I want to do is add more liquid chlorine. I'm hoping when it read FC 3 with salt cell being at 70% and the panel said "check system" that was cuz the leaves were in there. I'll go retest FC and take a peek at the panel right now. Ultimately I think the goal of the higher CYA is the maintain chlorine in the pool and I shouldn't have to be maxing out my salt cell I hope. (I can always take the sock with CYA out if that's the case. I'm sure it's not fully dissolved yet). thx

 

[outdoorsgal]

FC is 5. Salt cell is on 70% and has been on most of the day accept for a few hrs. Panel seems low for 70%. I know it's hot out there, but does anyone else have low CH, no salt cell build up a new salt cell... and having salt cell up to 70%? Panel says "no flow" while it's on 45%. I still need to figure out how to switch to RPMs instead of percentage. I wish it'd still create chlorine when on low speed. 45% doesn't sound that low to have a "no flow" signal, electricity-wise. thx

 

[splashpad]

thx Gene. R u saying I should be closer to the 7.2 range until I get TA to 60 or the "just under zero" CSI range?

To LOWER the TA, you have to keep dropping the PH to 7.2 from 7.8/+, which will "use up" some TA to rise again. You don't want to aim for less then 7.2 so that you don't accidentally cause damage to pool or equipment
Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

With the higher CYA, r u saying I need to add chlorine when it's 4 and recommended is 5 for 70 CYA or are you saying I'll need to start adding more chlorine the higher the CYA? The last thing I want to do is add more liquid chlorine. I'm hoping when it read FC 3 with salt cell being at 70% and the panel said "check system" that was cuz the leaves were in there. I'll go retest FC and take a peek at the panel right now. Ultimately I think the goal of the higher CYA is the maintain chlorine in the pool and I shouldn't have to be maxing out my salt cell I hope. (I can always take the sock with CYA out if that's the case. I'm sure it's not fully dissolved yet). thx

As ref earlier; [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]; Higher CYA does require a higher minimum FC, as the CYA "binds" with some FC, protecting it from UV rays, but also limiting it's immediate sanitizing ability

 

[proavia]

Shoot for 7.2 on pH to help lower the TA. When pH rises to 7.5 or so, lower again to 7.2. Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
Don't worry about the CSI being lower than 0 to -0.30 during this time. Having CSI lower than that for a short time to lower the TA shouldn't cause any problems. Once TA is 60, allow pH to rise to bring CSI into the 0 to -0.30 range. REMEMBER - it's a range, no need to get it as close to zero as you can. You're trying to prevent the SWG from scaling.

Refer to the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. With a higher CYA, you minimum FC and target FC are also higher. With your busy schedule, you'd be better off targeting a little higher than the chart suggests. This way the FC probably will not drop below minimum. You can easily raise FC to target using liquid chlorine - and then let the SWG maintain that level. You are trying to get the SWG to maintain that sweet spot - not use it to boost your FC level. Adjust theSWG percentage in SMALL increments - no large changes.

As for percent vs rpm on the pump, look up the pump manual online. There should be instructions there to change that setting. You want the pump to run fast enough to keep the SWG flow switch closed. It is suggested to find the minimum rpm that closes the flow switch - when the filter is clean - and then add 100-200 rpm to allow for when the filter gets a little dirty.

Keep up on your testing. The little bit of time spent testing on a regular basis will save time and $$$ in the long run.

Don't be concerned about what settings other people are using. Use what works to get and keep YOUR pool in balance. Every pool is different - even if you had 2 exact pools side by side, they would be different.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Thankyou. What makes me nervous about the higher level of FCs is that my goal is to not need liquid chlorine in a regular basis and if I'm already running the cell at 70% and have to keep the FC higher will I reach a point where the salt cell is no longer able to do it's job and I now have to add liquid chlorine on a reg basis? I'm getting nervous and thinking of taking the sock out. It's been hard to convince me of 70 CYA, I know.

- - - Updated - - -

As for percent vs rpm on the pump, look up the pump manual online. There should be instructions there to change that setting. You want the pump to run fast enough to keep the SWG flow switch closed. It is suggested to find the minimum rpm that closes the flow switch - when the filter is clean - and then add 100-200 rpm to allow for when the filter gets a little dirty.

I'm confused about this. Wouldn't I want the flow to be open more than closed? I checked my FC this morn and it was at 6. I'm not sure if there was flow last night since the pump ran on low most of the time so maybe I shouldn't be concerned but I keep thinking at 70% I should be much higher. I checked FC at 9:45 am and 9:45pm last night it was 5.

I do need to clean my filter. I checked today and it's definitely above 25%. When I clean the filter it may keep the salt cell open, then? With that, some folks may change their RPMs throughout the year?

thx

 

[proavia]

With a higher CYA you may actually lose less FC to the UV rays of the sun. Once you find the sweet spot, you shouldnt't have to add liquid chlorine except maybe right before and right after a heavy swimmer load - and of course in the winter time when the SWG won't produce chlorine due to low water temps. Right now, you may add liquid chlorine while dialing in the SWG so you don't have large SWG percentage swings.

Leave the sock in and get the CYA to 70.

To save electricity, you run the pump at a lower rpm - enough to close the SWG flow switch plus 100-200 rpm. You need to work on consistently cleaning the filter when filter pressure rises 20-25% above clean pressure. Letting the pressure get higher than that will slow down the flow and may prevent the SWG flow switch from closing. Run at this low speed unless you are running the infloor. No need to continuously adjust the low rpm setting - spend the time monitoring the filter pressure and clean as suggested.

A pool will NEVER be maintenance free - but it can easily be Trouble Free with a minimal amount of time invested. You've been down this road several times before and you know what to do. Now you need to decide to actually MAKE the time to do it. It's your pool and your decision how to maintain it. We have provided the TFP tools. You already know the other alternatives (which didn't work for you). Don't try mixing the TFP way with any others - it just won't work. Pick one or the other and just do it.

 

[outdoorsgal]

thankyou. I left the sock in. I'll check the manual for RPMs. I am ready to backwash but trying to figure out where to do it since I don't have a clean out. Handyman coming today to help with some jobs and he may try to help me locate if there is a cleanout. He suggests the salt will kill my grass if I empty it in the grass and if I empty in the street it's illegal. Thanks for all of your help!

 

[proavia]

Instead of backwashing, you could clean the filter by pulling out the DE grids......
DE Filter Cleaning Tutorial

This way you are sure it's totally clean and recharged with the correct amount of DE. And you aren't pumping balanced pool water out of the pool.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Instead of backwashing, you could clean the filter by pulling out the DE grids......
DE Filter Cleaning Tutorial

This way you are sure it's totally clean and recharged with the correct amount of DE. And you aren't pumping balanced pool water out of the pool.

Gene, this is an interesting and a great idea. It says to backwash before changing out the grids, though. I wonder how much of a difference not backwashing would be? The handyman dug up yard for 1/2 hour. He said there was an old timer's trick where he used a coat hanger to see where the metal was under the ground and was sure he found it but still nothing. I think I"m going to have to hire a plumber to put a snake through the toilet as for the long-term issue of when we need to empty the pool and cleaning the grids must get easier as you do it time and time again, but it's certainly more work than backwashing, would u say? I appreciate the solution, though, and will certainly consider it! It does seem to have it's pluses but also it's minuses.

 

[proavia]

Several on here do not backwash - they take the filter apart with the DE still on the grids. I personally have zero experience with DE filters - just relaying what I've read here.

Where are those test results?.. you haven't posted any in a while.

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

The handyman dug up yard for 1/2 hour. He said there was an old timer's trick where he used a coat hanger to see where the metal was under the ground and was sure he found it but still nothing. I think I"m going to have to hire a plumber to put a snake through the toilet as for the long-term issue of when we need to empty the pool.

I couldn't find my sewer clean-out when I needed to drain my pool to re-plaster. I finally had the thought to phone my local waste water agency. They were able to email me a diagram showing where the clean-out is. Mine is well hidden in an unlikely spot behind a bush. I never would have found it.

 

[JamesW]

If you're looking for metal, try a metal detector. Rental places rent them.

 

[outdoorsgal]

I couldn't find my sewer clean-out when I needed to drain my pool to re-plaster. I finally had the thought to phone my local waste water agency. They were able to email me a diagram showing where the clean-out is. Mine is well hidden in an unlikely spot behind a bush. I never would have found it.

Thx. I only wish it were that easy here in Phoenix. I called the city and they told me all kinds of things. Basically they didn't know. No diagram they said.

- - - Updated - - -

If you're looking for metal, try a metal detector. Rental places rent them.

That's a great idea although I've been told they r plastic in my neighborhood. I'm going to have to look at someone's up close. I took a walk the other day to try to spot where folk's clean outs were and I couldn't see one on my same model house, just other models. That wouldn't make sense, though. huh

 

[outdoorsgal]

Several on here do not backwash - they take the filter apart with the DE still on the grids. I personally have zero experience with DE filters - just relaying what I've read here.

Where are those test results?.. you haven't posted any in a while.

that's good to know. thx!

As far as testing and backwashing, it's been sort of a mess; what's new. I have stories for you but for those just wanting numbers skip to the bottom as this time I realize I might either be boring or entertaining folks with the crazy struggles that seem to happen in our household. We've had a couple of jobs needing tending to like a bathroom that's surely moldy in the wall and a grape arbor that's falling down. I got the handyman out to help with the arbor (not realizing it was going to take 2 trips and a 3rd today) and while he was here he assured me he'd be able to find my clean out. He dug up the front for 1/2 hr and then took out a couple of pieces of coat hanger and they moved towards each other (like a magnet) and he was sure they were close. He's one of the people who told me they're made of plastic later so who knows... Then he wanted to see me backwash since our handy-man friend always has ideas to help out. He explained to me about the areas where there was too much salt and folks were never able to farm there again and recommended against backwashing in the grass and the thought of trying to take apart the DE filter again with so much going on I risked and backwashed in the front of the house. Handyman precedes to go to Home Depot and as we're waiting 2 hrs for him to return I here something loud by my pool pump. It's the handyman cutting the pipe where the water backwashes out of saying whoever pointed the pipe in that direction is an idiot and he's got a gift for us as he put a couple of elbows on the PVC to point the H20 in the direction towards the street instead of the backyard. I was not happy with the handyman's gift since he didn't ask me and we have a couple more years of warranty on the plumbing and he wanted us to try it and I wanted to make sure it wouldn't cause more probs so figured I'd try it for 30 seconds or so and with everything going on we hadn't ran the pump enough apparantly ended up backwashing probably who knows how much of the DE out into the street. All I can say is the handyman learned his lesson and I don't think he'll ever give us a "gift" we didn't ask for again. Now I will have to decide if I will try to match the spraypaint to the paint that the plumbers put on the pump.

I could go on and on with my stories of the things that seem to be going wrong but I'll slip over to explaining why I haven't added enough acid to the pool, which won't appease you at all, Gene. With all of the distractions with the handyman including other problems that piled up that night I never added acid that day and was already behind because I wanted to add the acid to the tiles that i wanted to take pics of to send to the pool company before warranty is up this week or next week to get calcium off so they could clearly see the cracks and issues with the grout that was never quite properly fixed last time they were out. I'm probably making too big a fuss about that but after all of the money we spent on the pool I don't want to regret not having them fixed all of the cracks and not having the grout lines done well down the road.

With that, I've been pretty on top of the FC but not the pH. Running FC high (and pH unfortunately). This was the 2d time I let it get to 8.2 (first time on 6-10). Let me give u numbers from yesterday and today. I know, not good and I'm disappointed.

6-13-
87 degrees
FC 10.5 turned cell down from 70% to 55% after testing
pH 8.2 (It didn't take long to get from 7.2 to 8.2 this time-not goo, I know)
CC 0
TA 90
CYA 70. I guess this is the good news.

today:

FC 8.5
pH 7.4

with that, I'll plan on needing to add more acid tomorrow and will plan on rechecking TA then.

After vacay I'll have to continue digging up front yard to find clean out or call a plumber to pay them to locate it. I really want to find the clean out.

 

[zea3]

If you are on city sewer system the clean should be where your sewer line leaves the house and ties into the city sewer system. You may also have one near your kitchen sink. The sewer line should be in the easement in your yard. The top for the clean-out may be buried. When we had a break in our sewer line the clean out was buried under a couple of inches of grass and dirt. They replaced it with one that is a little higher than ground level, and I try and keep it clear of grass.

My old DE filter was a bump style, no capability to back wash. I would turn off the valves for the skimmer and return, open the drain on the DE filter and when it was empty take off the top and hose everything off. When it was all clean, put it back together and recharge.

 

[proavia]

Yay on finally getting the CYA to 70 - good job!

pH is rising quicker cause your TA is at 90. Lowering it to 60 in the normal course of adjusting pH will slow the pH rise a bit. If you want to lower it quicker - Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

I'd recommend you do NOT make large adjustments to the SWG - with your schedule and propensity for not testing and dosing often enough, your FC may fall too low. Only adjust in 5% (maybe max 10%) increments. And then only adjust after letting it be for 4-5 days to see how it does. Having the FC a little high isn't going to hurt anything or anybody. FC between minimum and SLAM level for your CYA is perfectly okay to swim in. You don't want to have to SLAM again - certainly not in this heat.

Since you admittedly haven't been keeping up on testing pH and adding acid, you may wish to pop the SWG out and have a look inside. Do NOT clean with MA if it isn't scaled up a lot.

As for the sewer line location - it will be different for even the same exact model house because the connection to the city line at the street is different for each and every lot. Look for any wall cleanouts in the front of the house - that may give you an idea of where to start looking. Do NOT use wall cleanouts for backwashing or draining the pool. There may be issues with the water backing up into the house. The cleanout in the front yard usually connects to a line that is several feet underground - this cleanout is a vertical pipe with a sweep (usually) tied into the main house sewer line. I have 2 in my front yard (had to raise one a few inches to be above the landscape rock) and can pump quite a bit of water down it without issue.

 

[outdoorsgal]

If you are on city sewer system the clean should be where your sewer line leaves the house and ties into the city sewer system. You may also have one near your kitchen sink. The sewer line should be in the easement in your yard. The top for the clean-out may be buried. When we had a break in our sewer line the clean out was buried under a couple of inches of grass and dirt. They replaced it with one that is a little higher than ground level, and I try and keep it clear of grass.

My old DE filter was a bump style, no capability to back wash. I would turn off the valves for the skimmer and return, open the drain on the DE filter and when it was empty take off the top and hose everything off. When it was all clean, put it back together and recharge.

thx. I do have a clean out in the wall behind my kitchen sink but there wouldn't seem to be a way to use that to backwash as there's so much water pressure and I wouldn't even feel comfortable emptying the pool into the pipes that go through my house. Being a salt pool doesn't make me feel any more comfortable. We have copper pipes in my house.

As for the front clean-out, I don't know what to say. I'm wondering if we need to backwash again already after last week. Since the handyman was there and wanted to watch me backwash since he had an idea, I don't think I backwashed good or something since the pool floor doesn't look clean and pressure is at 20-25 percent above where it should be already. When I backwash I usually backwash and then let the pool run on high for a min, then backwash again, about 3 times, prob a good 5 min of backwashing. The handyman told me I was wasting water and it was clean and to shut it off. I'm wondering if there's enough DE in there as it is from the mishap when he cut through my piping to do a favor and we ran some DE out. I'd think that less DE in the filter would mean less pressure, though. I hope my grids are going to look good after this.

I don't know anything about the kind of filter u had but it would make sense to just spray down the whole filter instead of taking all of the grids out accept when i need a good cleaning like a couple of times a year. Thx for reminding me of that idea!!