Taking a while to get CYA up, okay to swim?

[fly5298]

Hello everyone! As a new pool owner, I'm diving headfirst into learning all about pools, and I must say, TFP rocks!



Here's a little background on my pool: It's brand new, only three weeks old, and has a capacity of 18,000 gallons with diamond brite plaster. I plan to convert it to a saltwater pool in a few more weeks.

I'm currently facing some challenges with maintaining chlorine levels. I've been using three pucks in a floater for the past two weeks, but I haven't been able to get a reading. I'm also gradually increasing the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level, and I recently purchased granulated conditioner from Leslie's to help with that. According to the Orenda App, I needed 7 lbs of granulated conditioner to raise the CYA level to 30-40ppm. I added it yesterday, but my CYA reading is still quite low, around 10 using the Taylor test kit. The water is overflowing in the test tube, and the dot just barely goes away. I've read that it can take up to a week for the granulated conditioner to fully take effect, although I wasn't particularly thrilled with the advice I received from Leslie's to use granulated conditioner (not impressed with Leslie's overall but that's another story).

Now, here's my question for the group: I've been adding granulated chlorine to the pool without any CYA, and it disappears within a few hours. After 2 hours, I get a reading of 2.5 FC, but by the 12-hour mark, it's completely gone. It's Memorial Day weekend, and my kids are eager to jump in the pool—I can't blame them, especially since we had it installed in the fall and haven't had much chance to enjoy it yet. My concern is whether it's safe for them to swim with the FC levels between 0-2.5. The water is mostly clear, and there's no sign of algae or any other issues so far.

Thank you all for your help!

pH: 7.6 (keeping that in check due to the new plaster)
TA: 75 (had to bring that up over the past week)
Calcium: 370

 

[mknauss]

I needed 7 lbs of granulated conditioner to raise the CYA level to 30-40ppm. I added it yesterday,

How did you add it?
Be sure the FC is at least 3 ppm and let them swim. Use liquid chlorine to maintain FC. Check after they have been swimming for a couple hours and add more if necessary.

 

[fly5298]

Dumped the conditioner it into the skimmers. Took about an hour to suck all of it through. I’m assuming most of it sitting in the filter at this point slowly dissolving.

 

[mknauss]

Dumped the conditioner it into the skimmers. Took about an hour to suck all of it through. I’m assuming most of it sitting in the filter at this point slowly dissolving.

Very poor way to add CYA. Read CYA - Further Reading
Please fill out your signature. If you have a sand or de filter, do not backwash for at least a week.
Assume the CYA level is what you targeted when you added. Maintain the FC at target level for that CYA.

 

[fly5298]

Yeah, I can thank Leslies for that great piece of advice.
I assume I’ll be adding quite a bit of chlorine (checking every 12 hours) until the CYA starts coming up? That normal?

 

[fly5298]

…and it’s a DE filter.

 

[mknauss]

I assume I’ll be adding quite a bit of chlorine (checking every 12 hours) until the CYA starts coming up? That normal?

You will get 80% of it pretty quickly, so the FC should be fine with an add once a day. Just be sure to use the proper target level.

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[proavia]

Use liquid chlorine to increase your FC level based on the CYA level you expect to have after you added stabilizer.
FC/CYA Levels

Fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info.
This assists us in providing help specific to your pool without needing to ask you each time.
Use Marty's link above.

Read thru Pool Care Basics

 

[IceShadow]

Yeah, I can thank Leslies for that great piece of advice.
I assume I’ll be adding quite a bit of chlorine (checking every 12 hours) until the CYA starts coming up? That normal?

To be fair, the packages say to do what you did as well. So they are just telling you what it says to do on the product’s instructions.

It’s just really bad advice from the manufacturer too.

 

[mknauss]

FYI -- trichlor is not a sustainable method of chlorination for the majority of residential pool owners. TFPC encourages residential pool owners to use liquid chlorine or install a SaltWater Chlorine Generator to manage the sanitation of their pool.

 

[Bperry]

Now, here's my question for the group: I've been adding granulated chlorine to the pool without any CYA, and it disappears within a few hours. After 2 hours, I get a

You may already know this but all granulated chlorine has CYA in it except for cal-hypo, which has calcium in it. Both the CYA and the calcium will build up over time and cause trouble if you don’t watch it. Many people don’t realize that and wanted to make sure here.

 

[Bperry]

What is TFPC's suggested range for CYA? Especially for their view of liquid chlorine as a sustainable method?
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I do agree with you that chlorine tabs and dichlor is not the safest, and therefore is not a sustainable system for safely chlorinating and disinfecting waters. I agree. An increase in CYA within the pools of those homeowners who have never even heard that acronym is the top reason.
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Salt Water Chlorine Generators - Just how Sustainable are they compared to other water sanitization systems??
Maybe I'm missing something within my comparisons.
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Equipment Damage
Given how much damage salt water causes to pool pumps, polaris pumps, and other metalic equipment involved within a pool setup, I don't see how a salt water chlorine generator is viewed as "Sustainable".
I see salt water systems as the cause for more pump and electrical repairs down the road relative to fresh water sanitization systems, (tab chlorinator system, liquid shock + proper CYA level system, ozone)
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Safety

Just how many salt-water pool homeowners are running their levels above 2?
I see salt water systems as unsafe given that absolutely some percentage of homeowners are setting it to generate the least amount of chlorine possible to maintain the system's lowest levels until they visually see algae. Just because water appears clear doesn't mean it is being safely disinfected.
Page 41 of the new PHTA's CPO book states clearly, it takes 255 hours to hopefully inactivate/disinfect cryptosporidium, or the worst pool water disease that human feces carries.
The moment a salt water pool owner's child has a diarreah incident somewhere in the US, as they will somewhere every summer, we cannot expect them all to have CPO level knowledge on just how serious of a matter that is relative to water safety. And how their 1ppm chlorine level in a pool with CYA over 15 will need over 10 days minimum to kill cryptosporidium, if not more because the CYA in some of these salt pools is going to be over 15ppm.

Conclusion:
Salt water system is not the most sustainable for legitimate safety reasons as well as inevitable equipment corrosion damage reasons. Only if the homeowner is educated on CYA and the need for higher chlorine levels, and is OK with replacing pumps and equipment more frequently, would this system become more safe for swimmers.
GFCI electricity protection would be needed for ALL system components, since the salt will be gradually causing potentially everything to corrode including electrical components. GFCI breaker switches, not just GFCI plugs.
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What's the most sustainable and safest system for residential pool owners, including those with minimal water chemistry knowledge?

In my opinion, it isn't a salt water system, ozone has safety concerns and not all homeowners are intelligent enough for this system,
A basic pool management manual given to all homeowners with this info, would be amazing

1. CYA 50 ppm
2. Understanding just how much Free Chlorine is held by CYA in a deactivated state (97%, google CYA, pH, Chlorine relationship for Richard Falk's chart), which allows for swimmers to feel comfortable in CYA 50 waters even if Chlorine is at a 5ppm. Truth.
3. A chlorine level kept at 3-5 due to CYA level 50
4. A chlorine level that is never allowed to dip below 2.5
5. Liquid shock used when Chlorine is below 2.5. CYA will hold it so not all money is wasted when liquid shock is added to CYA 30-50 waters.
6. Simply testing CYA two times a month, draining as needed once a month at least in order to keep CYA at 50 or lower
7. Tab chlorinator to add chlorine constantly during swim season, especially when pool is being used. Liquid shock only could be used during non-swim seasons to keep algae at bay.
8. Some Water being drained once a month to keep CYA levels at 50 or below
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This, for me, is the most sustainable and safest home-owner proper pool sanitization system, as well as more cost-effective.
CYA knowledge
Chlorine level knowledge relative to CYA 30-50
Liquid Shock
Tab chlorinator
Monthly CYA management through water draining
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Salt system is second most sustainable. Salt systems cause a need for new pumps and equipment to be replaced more frequently. That side, as long as the home owner is keeping chlorine above 2.5ppm and CYA never higher than 50ppm, A salt system is the second most sustainable. in my opinion.

Dichlor is never needed ever, is always a waste of money if liquid shock, tabs, or granular shock are available for purchase. Shocking a pool and adding CYA simultaneously (which is what Dichlor does) is just as bad as using Cal-Hypo to shock a pool that has calcium levels that are too high... unless all other forms of chlorine are inaccessible.

Relying on liquid shock alone in CYA 30-50 waters without a tab chlorinator running, is unsafe. The moment chlorine hits zero due to the number of swimmers in the pool, the water cannot properly disinfect itself until more liquid shock is added after swimmers are out of the water. Relying on liquid shock alone with no tab chlorinator may also cost more $, since liquid shock is more expensive than tabs or granular.

Automatic liquid shock feeder system + CYA 30-50
As long as chemical delivery and system cost isn't too high, this is probably the 3rd most sustainable and cost-effective system. I'd love to start a business and install, service, and deliver liquid shock to these systems. I'm a huge fan of how liquid shock does not add any CYA or Calcium.

You initial statement about salt water pools being more corrosive than non-saltwater pools is not accurate. A salt water pool is not salt water like the ocean salt water and is no more corrosive than water coming out of your faucet to any pool equipment. The salt levels are a fraction of ocean water and many non-salt water pools have similar levels of salt in them as well from various acids and chlorine being added.

I also run my chlorine at nowhere near the minimum, usually in the range of 6-7ppm.

TFP clearly states the CYA/FC relationship all over the forums. There’s no individual range for CYA all by itself because the chlorine requirement is related to how much CYA is in the water. Check out the chart to see the recommendations.

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[YippeeSkippy]

SWGs have been in use since the 80s. No one here at TFP has ever witnessed any damage to pool equipment from their use. Its just an urban legend.

 

[proavia]

Its just an urban legend

More like an urban myth.
There is a BIG misconception about SWG and salt pools - especially in Texas.

EDIT - Hmm, seems like the post/reply Maddie was referring to is now gone.

BTW - every pool that uses ANY form of chlorine available to the residential pool owner is a salt pool.
3 years after a fresh fill(using pucks or liquid chlorine) and with no additional salt added, my salt level was over 2000 ppm - 2/3 of the way to what a SWG requires to function.