Switching to SWG tomorrow and need guidance please

[tmadson]

After swallowing pride and realizing I can't manage a chlorine pool, I'm switching.. tomorrow. I'm going with the Jandy True Clear which should be more than enough for my pool. https://www.jandy.com/en/products/water-sanitizers/truclear
The installer said my pump is hard wired at 240V so he can't connect this to that so it runs with it. I have to have a separate timer for the salt cell to coincide with the pump. That sounds crappy and means I can't use the I aqualink app I think.

I've tried to do as much homework on here as I could so I just want help confirming I'm on the right path as well as what I need on day 1 to get going and advice on day-to-day forward. Here goes:

Suggested levels: (I assume these are still good for AZ and I still have an ozonator.. not sure if that alters) (Current readings taken at 730am this morning)
Salt: Manufacturer says 3000 so I'll start with 3200 (current: 3300. no idea why when I'm not on swg. Fill water is about 700)
CYA: 70-80 (I've lived on pucks so never added this manually but I believe I use the sock method) (current reading not measureable it's so high)
FC: 4-6 (Current - 3)
TA: 60-80 (Fill water 60)(Current 140)
PH: 7.2-7.5 (Fill water 7.4) (Current 7.6)
CH: 350-450 (My fill water is tested at 180 - which also poses the question how I am sky high right now.) (Current 900)
CSI: -.3 - 0

No idea how many bags of salt to buy so if there is easy math that can tell me, maybe I put my pre-fill numbers into school math and see what it says?

Do I just buy any brand stabilizer and I assume pool math will tell me how much to add?

What else should I buy besides a salt level test kit to get me going?

Do I need to run the pump first for awhile to mix salt or get the swg on-line right away?

I'm concerned on how my hardness and salt level has sky-rocketed in a chlorine pool connected to soft water auto-refill. Is there anything that explains that I can understand? Is it the high hardness level driving calcium in turn driving the salt level? Do you foresee issues later knowing anything in my set-up?

DRAINING: I'm going to buy a submersible pump today so I could do it quickly. Is there such a thing as doing it safely during the day (over 100 degrees direct sunlight )? I was planning to wait until the sun disappears behind my neighbor's house. I'm putting full drain about 3.5-4 hours then I'll fill and set my alarm. Will the plaster be ok with nightime temps over 90 and no direct sunlight?

I appreciate all of the help!! From everything I've read and heard, I will be much happier with SWG and with travel, I don't have to worry about it as much.

 

[PoolGate]

That unit is fine for your pool. Why again can't he connect it to the existing timer/pump? I just did this exact SWCG on another pool and it was a breeze to connect to the timer. If he cannot do it he is incompetent and you should find a better installer. All of the connections should occur inside of your Jandy iAqualink box.

Also iAqualink should work fine it uses a different connection it doesn't matter how electrically it is hooked up. There is another connector on the bottom that connects to your iAqualink interface.

Pool Math will tell you how much salt to add. Just dump it in and 24 hours it will be dissolved.

 

[tmadson]

So, long story I'll try to reduce for sanity...The builder fixed a leak at the chlorine tank just before it enters coming out of the filter. He had to cut pipe. That cut is now dripping. Due to the location of it, he was going to have to rip a bunch out in order to have enough room to fix it. I had the idea of trading that labor to fix it for installing the SWG. The company agreed. This guy works for the company who owns the warranty.

All he said was.. it's hot wired at 240V so the SWG can't be connected to it to kick on at the same time. I have Iaqualink and a regular dial timer for some reason. He was going to use that regular dial timer vs the aqualink. If the only thing I get with aqualink is increasing the level, it doesn't really much to me. I would only adjust it when I test it anyway. Yes, would be much better to have the functionality but I don't know if he's BSing me or not. I don't have much options on labor since he's doing this vs fixing the leak.


Any thoughts on my other stuff in my original post?

 

[tmadson]

sorry - i also forgot to ask if it will hurt this thing at all with the water that comes down from the ceiling after going through the heated coils. It's essentially a flood of water until the pressure builds back up and it levels out. Will the super fats gush of water hurt the cell at all?

 

[Philo]

"Hot wired"/"Hard wired"? If you want to hook everything together, it's no sweat.

 

[Dirk]

Yikes, Pentair guy here, but I'll comment anyway. If you have automation, and you're installing an SWG that is not fully controllable by that same automation, well, that's a bit crazy (sorry to say). Automation and SWG should go hand in hand, and there are models designed just for that purpose. Pardon me if I don't understand what an iAqualink control can do, or if there is no SWG that it can control, but if there is, you definitely want that.

You are mistaken to think "If the only thing I get with aqualink is increasing the level, it doesn't really much to me." I use automation to adjust my SWG's output all the time. Sometimes by a notch or two, to anticipate a extra hot or extra cool week. And I expect to be adjusting it again for each upcoming season (I've only figured it out for summer so far). And sometimes the FC creeps up on me (cooler weather or nobody swimming), and I just turn it off for half a day. All via automation, usually on my phone.

Just encouraging you to do a bit more research on this before you let someone install something wrong for your pool and equipment, because then you might be stuck with it (which happened to me).

 

[PoolGate]

So, long story I'll try to reduce for sanity...The builder fixed a leak at the chlorine tank just before it enters coming out of the filter. He had to cut pipe. That cut is now dripping. Due to the location of it, he was going to have to rip a bunch out in order to have enough room to fix it. I had the idea of trading that labor to fix it for installing the SWG. The company agreed. This guy works for the company who owns the warranty.

All he said was.. it's hot wired at 240V so the SWG can't be connected to it to kick on at the same time. I have Iaqualink and a regular dial timer for some reason. He was going to use that regular dial timer vs the aqualink. If the only thing I get with aqualink is increasing the level, it doesn't really much to me. I would only adjust it when I test it anyway. Yes, would be much better to have the functionality but I don't know if he's BSing me or not. I don't have much options on labor since he's doing this vs fixing the leak.


Any thoughts on my other stuff in my original post?

How handy are you? I Literally installed this in around 2 hours start to finish. It is not hard at all. It is not correct and dangerous not to connect this in with the pump circuit. The flow switch on the SWCG is a failsafe and should not be used as the primary means of whether it is safe for the unit to run. If the SWCG runs without the water circulating, it is possible for it to explode. If this is not installed per Jandy instructions the warranty is probably void anyway. If you called and asked them this question I am sure they would give you an earful!

Almost ALL pumps are hardwired for 240 volt operation. The TruClear you are getting is also 240 volts. Not sure what they are talking about but my suggestion is to use someone competent.

You also do not need a mechanical timer if you have iAqualink. Can you post some pictures of your setup? Was it this same company that did all this?

And again, it doesn't matter how electrically this is set up. the iAqualink interface cable is separate and may be used regardless of how the electrical connection is Mickey Moused.

You need the K-1766 salt test kit before adding any salt. Test, see where you are, and add salt accordingly. If your CYA is too high, yes, you need to drain some water first before doing anything else.

- - - Updated - - -

FYI: TruClear and iAqualink are fully compatible.

 

[Dirk]

sorry - i also forgot to ask if it will hurt this thing at all with the water that comes down from the ceiling after going through the heated coils. It's essentially a flood of water until the pressure builds back up and it levels out. Will the super fats gush of water hurt the cell at all?

I think what you are describing is water and air rushing past the SWG as the panels fill for the first time each day, while they purge the air that collects in them when shut down the night before. I had this same concern: if the SWG plates are energized, and are exposed to air and/or water with lots of air and bubbles mixed in, does that endanger the SWG in any way. I'm looking for an answer to that, too. I suspect (hope) not. The salt water is completing an electrical circuit between the SWG's plates, which results in the reaction that produces chlorine. When that connection is reduced or eliminated by a temporary exposure to air, then the electrical flow just stops, and the reaction just stops. Similar to just flipping a switch on and off. That doesn't seem harmful to me, and I expect if it was there would be warnings to that effect all over the SWG documentation. In my Pentair manual, they explain how to connect the SWG to a solar controller, so at least Pentair is well aware that these systems coexist, and they don't offer any specific warnings about how they work together. That doesn't prove anything, but there are thousands of solar panels pumping air and water through SWGs, and if the SWGs were being damaged, we would have heard about it, and Pentair would disclaim for that in their documentation.

But maybe someone else here, that knows more about what's in store for an SWG that is exposed to air bubbles while it is running, can chime in.

 

[tmadson]

The guy owes me labor for the leak so I was taking him up on it. In my signature, there is a hot link that shows pics of my current setup. The entire container that has the chlorinator would be removed and this would go right in it's place. I dealt with the builder who contacted their warranty guy so I can't say if it's the same company or not but I'm going to reach out to this guy and maybe paste in his text here.. I trust you guys more than him. And, I've already looked through the install instr and it didn't look tough so I'm with you.

- - - Updated - - -

I think what you are describing is water and air rushing past the SWG as the panels fill for the first time each day, while they purge the air that collects in them when shut down the night before. I had this same concern: if the SWG plates are energized, and are exposed to air and/or water with lots of air and bubbles mixed in, does that endanger the SWG in any way. I'm looking for an answer to that, too. I suspect (hope) not. The salt water is completing an electrical circuit between the SWG's plates, which results in the reaction that produces chlorine. When that connection is reduced or eliminated by a temporary exposure to air, then the electrical flow just stops, and the reaction just stops. Similar to just flipping a switch on and off. That doesn't seem harmful to me, and I expect if it was there would be warnings to that effect all over the SWG documentation. In my Pentair manual, they explain how to connect the SWG to a solar controller, so at least Pentair is well aware that these systems coexist, and they don't offer any specific warnings about how they work together. That doesn't prove anything, but there are thousands of solar panels pumping air and water through SWGs, and if the SWGs were being damaged, we would have heard about it, and Pentair would disclaim for that in their documentation.

But maybe someone else here, that knows more about what's in store for an SWG that is exposed to air bubbles while it is running, can chime in.

Thanks - I'll see if anyone else pipes in but what you said makes sense.

 

[jblizzle]

So, in my automation, the SWG output is delayed when the pump first turns on to account for priming the solar panels ... thus a good reason to have everything working together in the same automation setup.

The air / water entering from the solar should not be a problem for the SWG as it should have not adequate water flow for the SWG to turn on.

 

[tmadson]

So, in my automation, the SWG output is delayed when the pump first turns on to account for priming the solar panels ... thus a good reason to have everything working together in the same automation setup.

The air / water entering from the solar should not be a problem for the SWG as it should have not adequate water flow for the SWG to turn on.

I just went back to the dude to ask him about the install. I'm waiting. But, this has helped me. I'm not too handy with stuff like this but if he keeps challenging me on it, maybe I'll ask him for the labor in the form of a check, and get someone else to do it. I have Jandy everything so this should be easy for him. My signature has a link to pics. If anyone sees anything crazy, let me know.

 

[Dirk]

I get that you want to recoup from this guy. I'll just add this: I used my [now-x] pool guy to install equipment and acid wash my pool, because it made sense economically and logistically. I wanted the same guy to do the work, so he'd know my system, know how to run it, take care of it, etc. That's how I ended up with automation that doesn't fit my need, plumbing that endangered my children, water chemistry that wasn't healthy, and an acid wash that destroyed my pool. Point is: do your own research, trust yourself (or TFP) over a pool guy, and hire the proper guy for the job (any job). Then ask for a refund from the guy who owes you, or keep the credit and use him for something else for which he is actually qualified (installing your SWG doesn't seem to be that). Sorry if that offends, just sharing with you what I wish someone had with me before I went down a similar path, which led me to significant stress and grief and dollars lost...

 

[tmadson]

I get that you want to recoup from this guy. I'll just add this: I used my [now-x] pool guy to install equipment and acid wash my pool, because it made sense economically and logistically. I wanted the same guy to do the work, so he'd know my system, know how to run it, take care of it, etc. That's how I ended up with automation that doesn't fit my need, plumbing that endangered my children, water chemistry that wasn't healthy, and an acid wash that destroyed my pool. Point is: do your own research, trust yourself (or TFP) over a pool guy, and hire the proper guy for the job (any job). Then ask for a refund from the guy who owes you, or keep the credit and use him for something else for which he is actually qualified (installing your SWG doesn't seem to be that). Sorry if that offends, just sharing with you what I wish someone had with me before I went down a similar path, which led me to significant stress and grief and dollars lost...

Thanks. Ugh....

Here is his reply btw....

You have a IQ pump controller and your motor on your pump is wired hot. Which means you have 240volts at the motor at all times. The I Q controller turns the pump on and off. If you wire the TrU clear directly to the motor it will cause the cell to stay on all the time.

 

[teCh0010]

Aside from the physical install this is what I did to start up my newly installed SWG (installed with new liner so new water).

Get pump running
Test Water - Get TA / PH / CH right
Chlorinate with liquid chlorine
Add CYA up to desired level
Add salt (just pour in, brush a little. Run the pump on high 24 hours after adding salt before turning on the swg.
Turn on the SWG

Dial in SWG level, testing, making small changes, and testing again a couple of days later. It could take a little while to dial in.

 

[Dirk]

So, in my automation, the SWG output is delayed when the pump first turns on to account for priming the solar panels ... thus a good reason to have everything working together in the same automation setup.

The air / water entering from the solar should not be a problem for the SWG as it should have not adequate water flow for the SWG to turn on.

The problem in my setup is that the SWG comes on at 7:00 am. I need it to come on early to allow its 7 hour run to occur before PG&E's 3:00pm rate increase. So the solar doesn't kick on until later, and never the same time each day, which means I can't program around that issue. The SWG might be energized or not when that occurs. When the air gets flushed through it is completely random, and I don't have any practical way to fill the panels, and purge the air, before the SWG comes on.

I became alerted to this issue when I received a low-flow alert one morning when my solar kicked on. So my flow switch might solve for this issue. A rush of air seems to trigger it off, but is that 100% reliable? I don't really have anyway to test that. I think it's still possible, for some span of time, however brief, for the plates to be energized while air is present between them. Would that harm the plates? Or the electronics in the SWG? Or is it like unplugging an incandescent lamp for a second. Light bulb filaments are impacted a bit each time they turn on and off, but negligibly in the grand scheme of its lifespan. Same for SWG plates?

 

[tmadson]

Thanks. Ugh....

Here is his reply btw....

You have a IQ pump controller and your motor on your pump is wired hot. Which means you have 240volts at the motor at all times. The I Q controller turns the pump on and off. If you wire the TrU clear directly to the motor it will cause the cell to stay on all the time.

More from him..

You have an I Q pump controller that is not the same as a iaqualink. Iaqualink is just the app on your phone. They make an iaqualink controller it has elays in the box. So I think the terminology is confusing you.

 

[Grape Ape]

Your installer needs to reread (read?) the install manual. The power pack has a power connection and a separate (optional) control connection. I don’t think you care if the system is sometimes has power, but is not on (because the automation has not sent the appropriate signal).

The tricky part is going to be correcting him politely...

 

[ajw22]

Thanks. Ugh....

Here is his reply btw....

You have a IQ pump controller and your motor on your pump is wired hot. Which means you have 240volts at the motor at all times. The I Q controller turns the pump on and off. If you wire the TrU clear directly to the motor it will cause the cell to stay on all the time.

It sounds like you have more automation then you realize. Here is what Jandy says about the IQ Pump https://www.jandy.com/en/products/pumps/variable-speed/iqpump01

Instant Pump Automation.
iQPUMP01 enables app control for Jandy variable-speed pumps. A mobile pump user interface that allows pool professionals to easily install, set up, and control the pump using a smartphone and the iAquaLink app, iQPUMP01's built-in hotspot technology makes set up and programming simple - even without Internet access. iQPUMP01 is compatible with all Jandy Pro Series variable-speed pumps and doesn't require a JEP-R user interface or other automation system. No more bending, climbing, and leaning over hot equipment to access a tiny keypad and difficult-to-read display. Installers can program pump cycles, initiate one-touch quick-clean, and service variable-speed pumps remotely to reduce on-site service visits and increase energy efficiency for the pool owner.

Features
Easy onsite set-up and programming - When on site, installers can wirelessly connect directly to the pump controller, with or without Internet access, using their smartphone and the iAquaLink app
Anytime, anywhere control - When connected to the web, in addition to easy onsite set-up and programming, pool professionals and owners can control the pump anytime, anywhere through the iAquaLink app
Simplified onboard user interface - allows servicer to access several key features without their smartphone:
Quick Clean: runs pump at high speed for short period of time for use with suction vacuums
Timed Stop mode: temporarily stops the pump for 1-24 hours to allow for servicing
Timed Run mode: pump will run for a period of time to ensure circulation of added chemicals
Updated iAquaLink app - Pump can be controlled directly using virtually any iOS or Android smartphone
Energy-efficient - Pumps can be programmed to run at non-peak energy periods and to run at the minimum speed it needs for cleaning, and heating. Energy consumption can be adjusted to pool's needs.

 

[tmadson]

It sounds like you have more automation then you realize. Here is what Jandy says about the IQ Pump https://www.jandy.com/en/products/pumps/variable-speed/iqpump01

Instant Pump Automation.
iQPUMP01 enables app control for Jandy variable-speed pumps. A mobile pump user interface that allows pool professionals to easily install, set up, and control the pump using a smartphone and the iAquaLink app, iQPUMP01's built-in hotspot technology makes set up and programming simple - even without Internet access. iQPUMP01 is compatible with all Jandy Pro Series variable-speed pumps and doesn't require a JEP-R user interface or other automation system. No more bending, climbing, and leaning over hot equipment to access a tiny keypad and difficult-to-read display. Installers can program pump cycles, initiate one-touch quick-clean, and service variable-speed pumps remotely to reduce on-site service visits and increase energy efficiency for the pool owner.

Features
Easy onsite set-up and programming - When on site, installers can wirelessly connect directly to the pump controller, with or without Internet access, using their smartphone and the iAquaLink app
Anytime, anywhere control - When connected to the web, in addition to easy onsite set-up and programming, pool professionals and owners can control the pump anytime, anywhere through the iAquaLink app
Simplified onboard user interface - allows servicer to access several key features without their smartphone:
Quick Clean: runs pump at high speed for short period of time for use with suction vacuums
Timed Stop mode: temporarily stops the pump for 1-24 hours to allow for servicing
Timed Run mode: pump will run for a period of time to ensure circulation of added chemicals
Updated iAquaLink app - Pump can be controlled directly using virtually any iOS or Android smartphone
Energy-efficient - Pumps can be programmed to run at non-peak energy periods and to run at the minimum speed it needs for cleaning, and heating. Energy consumption can be adjusted to pool's needs.

Yes, and i use it for the pump but I think the guy is saying it can't be used for the swg. I love it for the pump.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks. Ugh....

Here is his reply btw....

You have a IQ pump controller and your motor on your pump is wired hot. Which means you have 240volts at the motor at all times. The I Q controller turns the pump on and off. If you wire the TrU clear directly to the motor it will cause the cell to stay on all the time.

Ugh, is right. Again, not familiar with your brand, but it really does sound like this guy doesn't know how to do this. He's right, the motor would be connected to 240 all the time. So if you wired the SWG to that same circuit, it too would be on all the time. And he's right in that that's not what you want. What you do want is for the SWG to be wired correctly to your automation so that the automation controls when it can come on, and then the automation can ensure that doesn't occur unless the pump is running. And PoolGate claims this is all doable with what you have. So if he's right, then it sounds like your pool guy is not familiar with the concept, or how to do it, or both. So you're left with three choices: let him do it wrong, teach him how to do it correctly (after you figure that out yourself), or find someone that knows how to do it.

And as I mentioned, if your controller can adjust your SWGs output on the fly, you definitely want that to work, too.

And to further complicate: this is not just about the wiring. For my brand, there are specific installation requirements: where it goes, how it's oriented physically, how much straight pipe leads into it, how far away from the heater it's supposed to be, etc, which can impact how well it works and how its presence can impact the rest of your gear. So even if your guy can figure out the electrical connection, there's plenty else he could mangle if he doesn't know what he's doing.

I've been adding the following lately to some of my other posts here, might have to make it a motto:

Do it right. Do it once.