Had a similar issue last summer when my IC20 SWG (1 yr old pool) could not keep up even running all day @ 100. My pool installer (doesn't sell chemicals) told me to check for phosphates and indeed, I was over 2400ppm. I put in the required phos remover and got that knocked back to 0. Within a few days the SWG turned around and in about a week all back to normal.
SWGs and phosphates?
- Thread starter lager1829
- Start date
Re: SWGs and phosphates?
TFP does not recommend phosphate removers. The FC levels on the FC/CYA chart is regardless of phosphates. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
Some folks have extremely high phosphate levels and don't have any problems as long as their FC is in line with their CYA level.
TFP does not recommend phosphate removers. The FC levels on the FC/CYA chart is regardless of phosphates. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
Some folks have extremely high phosphate levels and don't have any problems as long as their FC is in line with their CYA level.
Yeah thanks guys. Typo on my part. Don't seem like a friendly bunch here for newbies.
Welcome to TFP!
That is not directed toward you. We have spent many years recommending not testing phosphates and have determined that pool stores just use them as an excuse to sell people more chemicals that they don't need.
I personally have never tested phosphates in my pool. And others have tested theirs at greater than 10k ppb. Neither I nor they have any difficulty maintaining perfectly clear and algae free pools.
That is not directed toward you. We have spent many years recommending not testing phosphates and have determined that pool stores just use them as an excuse to sell people more chemicals that they don't need.
I personally have never tested phosphates in my pool. And others have tested theirs at greater than 10k ppb. Neither I nor they have any difficulty maintaining perfectly clear and algae free pools.
Sorry if you took that the wrong way...........I just ASSUMED the pool store expressed that to you in ppm instead of ppb.
Lager,
Welcome to TFP... A Great resource for newbies and oldbies alike...
The problem is not you... it is the pool store myth that Phosphates are evil and need to be eradicated by buying expensive magic chemicals..
But you are correct we did not do a very good job of making you feel very welcome on your first real post.
Our primary job here is to help people get out of the habit of believing everything their pool store tells them, by testing their own pool water and then using the TFP process and Pool Math to only add what is really necessary to their pools.
Of course part of the problem is that for every gallon of "magic" that the pool store sells there is an oz. of truth buried in there somewhere.
We have found that phosphates really have no effect on pools as long as the FC (Chlorine) levels are high enough when referenced to your CYA (Stabilizer) levels.
Killing/removing phosphates does not hurt anything other than your wallet, but it really has no effect on getting algae or not.
If you have some time I suggest you read our Pool School (Link at the top of this page)
Thanks for posting and looking forward to any questions you might have..
Jim R.
OK fine. Thanks. Quick recap. I had suddenly been struggling last year to keep FC within line with my 1 yr old SWG - FC was < 1 even with 100% setting (prior yr I could maintain with 20% to 40% 12 hrs a day no problem) - CYA was around 60 but that was close enough that it should have not been issue. I called my installer who does not sell or have any skin in the game of Phos treatment sales - so not a pool store. He told me that it COULD be an issue with phosphates impacting the cell. I tested at a store that had a Lamotte DataLink and had high ppB, yes BILLION, phosphates reading - BTW Pentair recommends < 125ppb. I eliminated the phosphates with Phos Free from my local Agway farm store (no other change in treatments) and the SWG bounced back in about a week and no issue since. So for the phosphate deniers what else could have contributed to the recovery? I use this site as the bible for pool water balance and have not had to SLAM since my pool was commissioned in 2015. Thank you all for your collective knowledge and expertise. My pool water today is crystal clear and balanced within the TFP SWG recommendations. Thank God because it was 93F here today.
what else could have contributed to the recovery? I use this site as the bible for pool water balance and have not had to SLAM since my pool was commissioned in 2015. Thank you all for your collective knowledge and expertise. My pool water today is crystal clear and balanced within the TFP SWG recommendations. Thank God because it was 93F here today.
Let me try to clear this up a little bit. Phosphates are in fact food for algae. If you remove all the food then the algae cannot grow very fast. However if you keep the correct chlorine level as a function of your cya level then it doesn't matter how much food there is because the algae can't live.
Tfp has found it to be much easier to just maintain the correct chlorine level so that algae and bacteria and viruses cannot live. Instead of buying expensive chemicals to try to reduce the food just so that algae may not grow.
Tfp has found it to be much easier to just maintain the correct chlorine level so that algae and bacteria and viruses cannot live. Instead of buying expensive chemicals to try to reduce the food just so that algae may not grow.
so reducing the phosphates can have a positive effect in that you are less likely to get a huge algae growth if your chlorine level drops a little low.
I suspect in your case that you're chlorine dropped a little low so algae started to grow because it had a lot of food available to it and your swg could not keep up. If you would have slammed the pool and eradicated all the algae than the swg you would have been able to maintain proper FC levels. What you did was remove all the food so the existing algae started to die off and then the swg was able to catch back up.
I suspect in your case that you're chlorine dropped a little low so algae started to grow because it had a lot of food available to it and your swg could not keep up. If you would have slammed the pool and eradicated all the algae than the swg you would have been able to maintain proper FC levels. What you did was remove all the food so the existing algae started to die off and then the swg was able to catch back up.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,472
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I tend to agree with Jason on this one - the phosphate remover likely knocked out a necessary nutrient source for the algae and allowed your SWG to recover it's footing. An IC-20 in a pool your size is only going to produce 7ppm per day FC at 100% output. If there is any algae in the water that is reproducing, then it could easily overwhelm a cell of that size. Algae is only visible (cloudy or tinge of green) when it has reached fairly high levels and so even a "clear" pool can have a significant load of algae in it. In retrospect, your cell and testing were actually telling you there was an algae problem even though the water clarity was not.
Now it's not a bad thing that you reduced your phosphates down to zero (they won't stay there), it's just that your situation could have been fixed by merely elevating the FC levels with liquid chlorine for a period of 24-48 hours and possibly not even all the way to SLAM levels. A few extra bottles of bleach/liquid chlorine would likely have been cheaper than the bottle of PhosFREE.
Anyway, it sounds like the SWG is running normally again and you've been armed with greater knowledge for the next time this issue shows up....oh, and in case you're itching to remove phosphates again, don't use PhosFREE, it's like the "light beer" of phosphate removers. SeaKlear Phosphate Remover is much more concentrated and does not contain any extra clarifiers in it. If you need a clarifier, you can add one separately. Orenda PR-10000 is also a very high quality, concentrated phosphate removal product that doesn't use extra clarifiers.
Now it's not a bad thing that you reduced your phosphates down to zero (they won't stay there), it's just that your situation could have been fixed by merely elevating the FC levels with liquid chlorine for a period of 24-48 hours and possibly not even all the way to SLAM levels. A few extra bottles of bleach/liquid chlorine would likely have been cheaper than the bottle of PhosFREE.
Anyway, it sounds like the SWG is running normally again and you've been armed with greater knowledge for the next time this issue shows up....oh, and in case you're itching to remove phosphates again, don't use PhosFREE, it's like the "light beer" of phosphate removers. SeaKlear Phosphate Remover is much more concentrated and does not contain any extra clarifiers in it. If you need a clarifier, you can add one separately. Orenda PR-10000 is also a very high quality, concentrated phosphate removal product that doesn't use extra clarifiers.