SWG run time calculations assistance

[mas985]

SRP for chlorine electrolysis is 2.2 volts. Overpotential is required for the reaction to occur so over 2.2 volts is necessary. It is possible they used 4 groups of three cells but the numbers do not work for that either.

However, if the efficiency of the RJ60+ was twice that of the T-15, that would explain the difference but that seems very unlikely. The RJ60+ would have to be over 90% efficient to generate that amount of CL where as the T-15 is about 43% efficient.

I would ask for test data from them to confirm the advertised production rate. Or a refund.

 

[JamesW]

If a merchant makes a claim in the marketplace, they have to be able to verify that the claim is reasonable on request.

It's like a car maker claiming that their car gets 100 miles per gallon and you rely on that claim as part of your decision to purchase the car. Then, you measure that you're only getting 35 mpg.

The maker has to be able to verify how they got 100 mpg.

Ask directly for something that validates the claimed output.

 

[sbcpool]

For what it’s worth, I tried a similar test with my RJ-30+. I ran it at 100% for four hours after the sun had gone down. The FC level in my 14364G pool went up by 2ppm after that run.

That is certainly in line with the promised 1.5 lbs/24 hour output promised by circupool for the RJ-30+.

At this point I would be ecstatic to achieve that performance. Scaling up to my pool size would still be 1.5 ppm in 4 hours. I'm getting about 0.8 - 1.0 ppm.

 

[sbcpool]

Ask directly for something that validates the claimed output.

I understand all that, but what I can't understand is why I'm seeing less output than people with models rated for less than half the capacity. Marketing claims aside, there's something wrong. I should be able to at least get the same production they're getting.

 

[JamesW]

I understand all that, but what I can't understand is why I'm seeing less output than people with models rated for less than half the capacity.

Provide the relevant data that shows what someone else is getting.

 

[sbcpool]

SWG run time calculations assistance

Then there is likely a very large obstruction in the suction side or the impeller. If the pump is not drawing in air into the pump basket, then it is likely an impeller issue.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JamesW]

I think that we have done about as much as we can do without getting actual engineering and test data from the company.

If they're making claims about performance, they should be able to provide something that shows how they arrived at their figures.

I think that they have a satisfaction guarantee.

If you don't want to ask for the test data maybe just get your money back and get a different SWG from someone else.

 

[sbcpool]

I have a suspicion they don't have it. It appears as though they're imported from a Chinese manufacturer.

CircuPool is a trademark of Pace Research Ltd.

US Imports Data of Product SWIMMING POOL Import by Research Ltd

Details of Product SWIMMING POOL Import Data Import by Research Ltd

usimports.info

See item "CFHW-4": titanium electrode Salt Chlorinator Product cell replacement to Autopilot, View chlorinator cell, OEM Product Details from Ningbo C.F Electronic Tech Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

The manufacturer, Ningbo C.F Electronic Tech Co., Ltd., has several products they rate at 60mg/hr, which works out to 3.17 lbs/day. I suspect this is the same rating given to this particular cell.

 

[JamesW]

For 13 plates and a limit of 8 amps, the only way that I can see getting to 3 lbs per day is to put the plates in series and double the voltage.

I don't even know if that would work correctly.

In any case, I think that you have done enough to establish that the system isn't going to produce to your satisfaction.

Do you want to get your money back and get a different system or do you want to try to work with the seller some more to see if there's something they can do to make it work for you?

 

[sbcpool]

My main concern is making sure there's not something on my end causing the underproduction. I don't want to pick a fight about getting a refund and see it through to the conclusion only to have the same problem with another manufacturer. I'm trying to rule out everything under my control before going that route.

 

[sbcpool]

Does anyone have first-hand knowledge of whether the Pentair IC60 really deliver 2 lbs of FC to the water in 24 hours?

 

[mas985]

For what it’s worth, I tried a similar test with my RJ-30+. I ran it at 100% for four hours after the sun had gone down. The FC level in my 14364G pool went up by 2ppm after that run.

That is certainly in line with the promised 1.5 lbs/24 hour output promised by circupool for the RJ-30+.

What is the voltage and current when running?

 

[JamesW]

Does anyone have first-hand knowledge of whether the Pentair IC60 really deliver 2 lbs of FC to the water in 24 hours?

I would be reasonably confident with the numbers from Pentair because they are a known good company.

They probably have test data that can verify their claims if you want to inquire.

 

[Dave_NJ]

Not sure how helpful this will be but I recently installed an rj-60+ cell. My pool is roughly 24k gallons and I run the cell at 50% for twelve hours a day (9:00 am to 9:00 pm). According to pool math that should equate to an output of 3.9 FC per day and my chlorine levels have been fairly consistent at 6.0-6.5 ppm.

My CYA level is 70, salt is 3200 as per Taylor k-1766 test kit.

I took the following info from the unit today while it was generating: 22.2 volts, 6.12 to 6.19 amps, salinity 3600 and water temp 84.2.

I haven't done a thorough test to determine the exact output but I feel like the unit is producing an appropriate amount of chlorine gas for the cell size and stated amount of 3.1 lbs per day.

If there is anything else I could do to help troubleshoot I'm happy to do so but you're pretty thorough so far!

 

[Brett S]

What is the voltage and current when running?

21.7V and 3.8A. This is for my RJ-30+

 

[mas985]

According to pool math that should equate to an output of 3.9 FC per day and my chlorine levels have been fairly consistent at 6.0-6.5 ppm

4 ppm per day is quite a bit of chlorine to add each day. Over 50% of your average level. I add a little over 1 ppm per day. I think for most people it is 1-2 ppm per day. My guess is that cell is not producing the advertised amount.

 

[Dave_NJ]

4 ppm per day is quite a bit of chlorine to add each day. Over 50% of your average level. I add a little over 1 ppm per day. I think for most people it is 1-2 ppm per day. My guess is that cell is not producing the advertised amount.

In order to get a better handle on chlorine generation/replacement I guess the next step would be to raise FC level to around 10 in the morning, keep the SWCG off for the day and test in the evening to determine my chlorine loss and that would tell me how much I need to replace during the day to maintain levels. Is this correct? If so I will do this tomorrow and report back.

I didn't think a loss of 4 FC was abnormal since I thought the general consensus was 2-4 ppm FC loss per day was not out of the ordinary. The pool is in full sun from 10:30 until 7:00 or so but if a loss of 1-2 ppm is more typical then that is definitely good to know.

 

[wireform]

I have a pool with the RJ-60 plus, vinyl 28k gallons, large DE Pentair filter, 400BTU Raypack, single speed pump plumbed with 2" throughout, auto cover. Chemistry : CYA called it 70, Salinity close to 4000ppm, very stable 7.5-7.7 PH. Water temp always around 87deg. A week ago I adjusted the timer and added 1 hour so now it runs 12 hours @40%. Yesterday I visited the pool to find the FC 11 (22 -23 drops) so I lowered it to 30% and will watch it drop off. Will be there in 2 days to see the FC. I did observe the fog in the cell coming across from all the plates evenly where it was hard to see the end of the plates.

For comparison, I have another pool, vinyl 24.5k gallon, CYA 70, salinity 3400ppm, same unit installed this year where it struggles a bit but it DOES achieve 7ppm FC. Water temp between 79 and 85. This pool also single speed pump, sand filter, 250 btu heater and mostly 1 1/2" plumbing and the the fog at the plates looks like it comes more from inner plates and the plates can be seen through the fog much clearly. Pump run time is 11 hours @70%. Once a week PH is on the rise and gets the MA treatment.
I firmly believe it has to do with the pipe size and the velocity it comes through the cell.

 

[mas985]

21.7V and 3.8A. This is for my RJ-30+

So this would confirm that the RJ60+ should produce twice the output (3.1 lbs) with twice the current as the RJ30+.

What is interesting is that these cells are operating at very high efficiency (>90%) while the T-15 appears to be operating at very low efficiency (<50%).

 

[JamesW]

In my opinion, the rj60 is going to produce roughly the same amount of chlorine as a t-15.

In my opinion, there's no way that it's going to produce double the chlorine of the T-15.

Unless someone can provide test data from a reputable company, I don't buy it at all.