SWG PREP

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wireform

wireform

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Aug 15, 2017
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Spring Valley, NY
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Friend's pool.
The pool is 4 years old, vinyl, IG 20' X42' at approx 32000 gallons. 1.5 hp pump coupled with a Jandy CV460 cartridge filter, Delta E-40 Ultraviolet Sanitizer/Clarifier System, Raypack PR406AENC heater, automatic pool cover and a robot. No SWG.
8/5/2019 water temp 91 deg
FC- 7
CC-.5
PH-7.3
TA-90
CH-125
CYA-50
SALT-1800 ppm
CSI-0.65
A couple of questions as I'm prepping the water for SWG Circupool RJ-60 PLUS. CYA is on the way up, doing it in stages not to over shoot.
1) This pool Is covered all of the time except when in use and therefore doesn't see the sun most of the day. Does the UV lamp do anything that I need to calculate for. It was broken all season and was just replaced. I haven't pushed the issue because the consensus here on the forum is it's a bunch of nonsense. Does it make up for the UV it's missing due to the cover and if the pump runs 24 hours now as I'm getting the chemicals in the water will it burn off the liquid chlorine faster than not using it. Need to get the pool owner on board with all this stuff.

2) The PH hasn't moved out of the low 7's all summer but see the recommended PH to be up at high 7's for SWG. How should I deal with this?

3) I would like to keep the CSI around .0 and with pool math I was able to get it when I played with raising the PH to the high 7's and by bringing up the CH numbers to about 250. Am I correct or and should add calcium or I'm missing the point here.

4) Did a salinity test with the TAYLOR 1766 and first milky red showed up with the ninth drop. Basically 1800 ppm. Question, All I would need to do is just add the difference with additional salt via the salt chart calculation? Could there be that much salinity from chlorine over the last few years? Wasn't with this pool from day 1 so I have no way of knowing if someone ever put salt in just for the water effect.

Thanks in advace to all members, Allan
114136
 
Wire,

I am not at all surprised that the pool already has 1800 ppm of salt. All pools tend to become salt pools if the water is not exchanged. You just need to add the additional salt to get the level from 1800 up to the recommend amount for your cell.

If you have an auto cover, I would not run the CYA at 70, I would run it at 40 or so... The reason for the high CYA is to prevent the sun burning off the FC too quickly. Which should not be a problem with the autocover. You can always bring it up later if needed..

I know we recommend a UV system if you have an indoor pool, so I assume an autocover is pretty close to being indoors. If it is working, I'd keep using it..

Most SWCG pools like their pH to be 7.8... I would not try to fight this too much, it just makes things harder to do..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jim
Thanks, I'll leave the cya where it is for now and add later should it be necessary. Your logic with the UV light is something I haven't thought about and maybe that's why the PB has it there in the first place. I haven't tried anything with the PH yet but that does bother me and would love to bring it up unless you think it may come up when I run the SWG. What do you think about the CH question I have.
Allan
 
wireform said:
I haven't tried anything with the PH yet but that does bother me and would love to bring it up unless you think it may come up when I run the SWG. What do you think about the CH question I have.
Click to expand...

Get the SWG running and see what the pH does.

You want to keep the CSI negative between -0.3 to 0 with a SWG to prevent scaling of the plates. See where the pH ends up with the SWG running then adjust TA and CH to get the CSI into the zone.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The UV will help break down the CC that the sun will not be able to do. It may also break down some of the FC, but the SWG will have not problem keeping up.

There is no need to worry about a very negative CSI value for a vinyl pool. I would not increase the CH.
The reason that the pH tends to be high for SWG pools is that the cell itself can drive the pH up. The pH does not HAVE to be in the high 7s, that is just where it may settle. Again, not know how the pH is going to behave with the new SWG, I would NOT raise the CH.
 
Update: POOL FROM POST#1

Install went well. Had a small bump in the road as the FC-0 when I did the install and the SWG wasn't producing enough to overcome the 0 chlorine even with super chlorination. I tested the water and found the CC-1.0 so that's where the problem really was. Did a mini slam, over chlorinated with liquid chlorine 2 days in a row with swg running. I now have CC-.5 and the chlorine doing very well with the FC-8. I dialed it down a notch in conjunction with the pump timer and will check it again in a day or two.


FC-8

PH-7.5

TA-90

CH-125

CYA-50

SALT-4000 ppm (as per tech support at CIRCUPOOL)

TEMP-87

CSI- (-0.58)

So with these numbers my CSI is far from "0". From what I read here on the forum the closer to zero the cleaner the cell remains. Poolmath allowed me to play with the numbers and when I bring up the CH to about 250-275 and let the PH work its way up a bit it will get close. Can I add CALSIUM to the water in stages even though it's a vinyl pool but for the sake of getting the CSI to where I want it or not and why not ?

Thanks in advance, Allan



pictures of install, control was only temporary and has been remounted with a small roof to protect it from the elements.
20190806_213415.jpg20190809_033443.jpg
 
You misunderstood. You want the CSI to be on the negative side to keep the cell clean. It is currently negative so no need to worry about it. Also, no need to add calcium to the vinyl pool.
 

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Anything negative will lower the likelihood of a "local" high CSI in the cell. It does not need to be closer to 0. That would be a "higher" CSI and more likely to cause problems.

There is also not really any "too negative" for the a vinyl pool as on the negative side there is only a concern about pulling calcium out of plaster, which they do not have.
 
Update: POOL FROM POST#1

Pool is running well with all numbers where they were in last post. PH hasn't moved at all as I keep checking for it along with the FC.
My question is: as advised to me in this thread not to run my CYA up to the recommended 70 because of the pool is covered except when it's in use, where should I aim for with the FC. I started the swg at 70% as that's procedure and I'm down to 45% now. Fridays FC was 9.5 @50% so I went down to 45% and will check it soon. The SWG chart starts at 60 so me being at a Cya of 50 is off the charts. How high of an FC is too much and is that a problem with pool equipment, liner etc. The pump is on a timer from 2:00pm till 11:00pm to keep the temperature in check so I guess I'll be lowering the swg to compensate.
Thanks Allan
 
Allen,

Just use the non-SWCG chart... Having your FC a little high will not be an issue unless you go over the SLAM level..

With a cover, you will have to have a pretty low output %...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Most saltwater chlorine generator (SWG) pools appear to prevent algae at a minimum FC level of 4.5% of the CYA level. CYA of 50 would be FC of 2.5.

From ...

www.troublefreepool.com

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
Most saltwater chlorine generator (SWG) pools appear to prevent algae at a minimum FC level of 4.5% of the CYA level. CYA of 50 would be FC of 2.5.

From ...

www.troublefreepool.com

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
[/QUOTE]
Yes I see where your coming from but already at a 60 CYA it's not recommended, more so in the 50 range. Possibly the 2.5 you're saying isn't doing much maybe that's why JIM R is telling me to follow the NON SWG chart with my 50 CYA level so I would have enough FC to counter any unexpected something in the water.
 
I also have an autocover and keep my CYA *slightly* lower.
I have a large SWG so my output is always set low. If I ever need an instant boost (or someone just starting up their swg pool should) I use liquid chlorine.
Remember that covered pools need to be opened up every other to third day and allowed to "breath" and let the sun burn off any built up gases or CCs that have been trapped under the cover.

Maddie :flower:
 
I read what you wrote. Pool is used every single day. Off gassing is a non issue here but good info I never knew. So are you saying you're using the 4.5% CYA/FC equation or the non CYA chart or somewhere in the middle. Not that the SWG could care less and its a very minut difference. Just like understanding the way pool chemistry operates.
 
I am using something in between the Non-SWG and SWG range. Just my gut (no math equations for me, please!) and instinct, along with testing.....and in 8 years of pool ownership I've never had algae. <knock wood!>

Maddie :flower:
 
Thanks to everyone for taking their time to answer my questions. I'm a TFP addic always reading through the daily questions and answers. Love the non selfishness here on the forum as high post numbers of some of you is just astounding. It's an obvious PROOF of constantly giving....
 
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