Sunpower vs REC Solar Panels

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scdaren

scdaren

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May 20, 2018
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Clovis, CA
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Obviously off topic for pools, but so far I see a lot of smart people on here, and hoping for some good advice since I'm guessing lots of you have solar (electric solar not pool heat solar). We have had solar panels on our house for about 7 years, but with the pool completed this year, and discovering we are running our heat pump more often than planned, our electric bills are going up and I need to get some more solar panels on our roof.

So I have two options, and can't decide. Here are the quotes:

Quote 1 - Pacific Solar
This is from the company that installed my original SunPower solar panels. SunPower panels are widely regarded to be some of the best, and have a 25 year warranty. I really like these guys, they are very professional and the system they installed for me has worked out great -- no issues whatsoever in 7 years, and would completely recommend them. They are quoting more SunPower panels, cost is $17,108 for a 4.32KW system, offering 3.99% 10 year financing.

Quote 2 - Solar Negotiators / Solar Maintenance Pros
From another local company that gets great reviews and has an excellent reputation, known for being the low cost leader. They are quoting REC solar panels, which seem to get good reviews, but not at the level of SunPower, and only a 10 year warranty. They are quoting $16,150 for a 5.22KW system. Their financing sucks, so best deal is 6.5% either 10 or 15 year with my credit union.

Factoring in the financing and tax credits, the price of these two systems comes out about the same. So the question comes down to whether I should get the 4.32KW system from a brand and installer I know and trust? Or the 5.22KW system from another installer who is well-regarded but uses cheaper panels? Anyone have experience with the REC panels?

I'm leaning toward Quote 1 because of the history I have with the installers and SunPower, but I HATE feeling like I'm leaving a kilowatt on the table.

Thoughts?
 
I would go with the original company if your happy with everything so far. 7 years is a long time to see the longevity of a product.

Also I would sleep better with the 25 yr warranty

I'm about to pull the trigger for my solar system. I'm using direct energy connection. They were about the same price as everyone else. My neighbor has used them for 4 years now.
 
If what my salesman says is true (so, you know, 50-50), it's the converter you have to worry about. That's the deal breaker when it comes to the ROI/warranty game. It was explained to me that they are virtually guaranteed to stop working, and aren't cheap. So you have to keep an eye out for how its failure is covered. Are both quotes including an upgrade to the converter, are the converters part of the panels, or are they bolting on more panels using the existing converter?
 
Dirk said:
If what my salesman says is true (so, you know, 50-50), it's the converter you have to worry about. That's the deal breaker when it comes to the ROI/warranty game. It was explained to me that they are virtually guaranteed to stop working, and aren't cheap. So you have to keep an eye out for how its failure is covered. Are both quotes including an upgrade to the converter, are the converters part of the panels, or are they bolting on more panels using the existing converter?
Click to expand...

I think this is probably true. The SunPower panels I think have an advantage here, there are microinverters on each panel, made by SunPower and covered under the same 25 year warranty as the panel. The REC system has SolarEdge 5000 HD inverter, with DC optimizers at each panel. I *think* the sales guy said that inverter comes with a 25 year warranty, but I don't see it in the written stuff they gave me.

The DC optimizers make it so if one panel is shaded, the others will keep producing at their normal rate. Otherwise shading one panel brings them all down. The REC panels actually have an advantage here, because with their technology if one half of a panel is shaded, the other half will maintain full power. The SunPower system does not need the optimizer because each panel has its own inverter.
 
My comments:

-You should really search around on solarpaneltalk.com if you want some expert advise from pros. Warning. They tell it like it is there so prepare for the truth.
-PV panels are pretty much a commodity these days and I would put no more value on the heavily marketed SP panels than any other recognized brand.
-I agree that inverters are usually the weak link and will fail due to heat and age well before the panels.
-A trusted, local installer is worth plenty in this game.
-Don't buy only on price. That is rarely a good value when it comes to PV solar.
-Check your grid-tie net metering rules assuming you have such an agreement. Your current contract may be voided if you increase your generation capacity and old, grandfathered contracts are often far better than the new plans offered by power companies.
-I don't trust any warranties (solar or otherwise) that say they last more then 5 years. Companies can fold, change owners or simply find devious ways to deny your warranty because of a multitude of reasons.
-I myself would never consider a loan (and never ever a lease of any type) to install PV but my electricity rates are low here. Your mileage may vary.

I have a very simple 26 panel 6.6kW system that was purchased with cash and installed four years ago by a locally owner business that has been in business for 30 years and doing solar for over 10. Two strings of 13 panels facing south with no shade issues. No optimizers on each panel or other failure points wanted. Only the bare minimum working parts gives me the best chance of low failures. I paid $1.68/kW after all incentives as a turn-key system with all planning and permits with the HOA and city included. Now that we have one less person at home and a VSP pool pump installed we have enjoyed 3+ years of no net billable energy and pay just $11.95 per month for the meter connection. Yes, under $150 total electric bill in Phoenix AZ. Even at those costs I still have three years to reach the break-even point on my investment.

If you read on solarpaneltalk they will all tell you that heating water with PV power is the worst thing you can do and I have to agree. If you have no other choice then, then it is what it is. We are lucky to have gas appliances and don't heat our pool water at all.
 
slickraft said:
My comments:

-You should really search around on solarpaneltalk.com if you want some expert advise from pros. Warning. They tell it like it is there so prepare for the truth.
-PV panels are pretty much a commodity these days and I would put no more value on the heavily marketed SP panels than any other recognized brand.
-I agree that inverters are usually the weak link and will fail due to heat and age well before the panels.
-A trusted, local installer is worth plenty in this game.
-Don't buy only on price. That is rarely a good value when it comes to PV solar.
-Check your grid-tie net metering rules assuming you have such an agreement. Your current contract may be voided if you increase your generation capacity and old, grandfathered contracts are often far better than the new plans offered by power companies.
-I don't trust any warranties (solar or otherwise) that say they last more then 5 years. Companies can fold, change owners or simply find devious ways to deny your warranty because of a multitude of reasons.
-I myself would never consider a loan (and never ever a lease of any type) to install PV but my electricity rates are low here. Your mileage may vary.

I have a very simple 26 panel 6.6kW system that was purchased with cash and installed four years ago by a locally owner business that has been in business for 30 years and doing solar for over 10. Two strings of 13 panels facing south with no shade issues. No optimizers on each panel or other failure points wanted. Only the bare minimum working parts gives me the best chance of low failures. I paid $1.68/kW after all incentives as a turn-key system with all planning and permits with the HOA and city included. Now that we have one less person at home and a VSP pool pump installed we have enjoyed 3+ years of no net billable energy and pay just $11.95 per month for the meter connection. Yes, under $150 total electric bill in Phoenix AZ. Even at those costs I still have three years to reach the break-even point on my investment.

If you read on solarpaneltalk they will all tell you that heating water with PV power is the worst thing you can do and I have to agree. If you have no other choice then, then it is what it is. We are lucky to have gas appliances and don't heat our pool water at all.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I'll check out that forum. Paying cash is not an option for me, and the interest rates are low enough that it still makes financial sense to do the solar panels vs. what the power rates are. The rate plan is one difference between the two -- the SunPower dealer I used before said they see no need to tell PG&E about the expansion, since there is nothing they need to do, so I'll stay in my grandfathered tiered rate plan. The REC dealer says I'll need to move to a time of use plan. In 3 years everyone here has to move to TOU regardless though, so it's not a huge difference. Also, I can schedule pool equipment and heater to run outside the TOU hours, which peak 4-9 pm on weekdays in the summer. I will have some shading issues on the best part of my roof in the afternoons from part of the neighbors house, so I do want the separately controlled panels.
 
I took the tax exemption last time, and everything I have heard or read says I can take it again on this one -- please let me know if I am wrong here.

It's not $17k, because I get a 30% tax credit. It's more like $12k.

I have had a solar system for 7 years, and it has been well worth the investment, and I'm pretty well aware of the pros and cons. Even with the upgrade, my payment should be somewhere around $125 a month on a 10 year loan. In the first year, I will save at least that much on my power bill, then a little more than that every year as power prices go up. Then after 10 years, the monthly payment goes away. I may, of course, opt to pay it off sooner, in which case I also get the benefit of saving that interest cost.
 
I echo the suggestion of the solarpanel talk site. I got lots of help there when I did my install.

I would look for some additional quotes - I think the going rate is under $3.25/watt in the Bay Area, and even in closer to $3.00/watt in So. Cal - 3 years ago I was close to $3.25 amount. (Your quotes are $3.96/watt for Sunpower and a competitive $3.09/watt for the lower cost quote).

PG&E will not let you add to a system beyond a very small amount without going to the new NEM 2.0 and new TOU rates...I would seriously question your installer suggesting otherwise.

Here is a quote from PG&E's site... "If the renewable generator is modified or repaired during the "grandfathering" period, the customer will remain eligible only if the NEM1 system does not increase in size more than 10 percent of the generating capacity in the original PTO letter, or 1 kW, whichever is greater."
 

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santacruzpool said:
Here is a quote from PG&E's site... "If the renewable generator is modified or repaired during the "grandfathering" period, the customer will remain eligible only if the NEM1 system does not increase in size more than 10 percent of the generating capacity in the original PTO letter, or 1 kW, whichever is greater."
Click to expand...

Right... installer #1 told me that, they just don't intend to tell PG&E that I'm upgrading the system. Shady, but not sure if it is like super-shady and I should turn and run, or maybe just a little shady and people do it all the time.

I went on solarpaneltalk.com... looks like it takes a little while before someone can be allowed to post. Been doing some searching, but there is just so much info I'm not really getting much helpful. The consensus does seem to be that SunPower is great and all, but not really worth the extra cost. I have not been able to find much about REC panels -- the keyword REC is to short so doesn't work in searches on the site.
 
PG&E can tell with a smart meter if your output suddenly increases - which would show a bigger system - if you did a smaller incremental change I could see that being missed one time, but adding an amount you are talking about is a huge change.

I also think that a company (this can't be company policy really - but more a salesman who is trying to get a sale) suggesting you commit fraud (that is what it is) is pretty sketchy. PG&E, despite all of their problems, is a public utility, so you would be cheating the rest of us who are PG&E customers in California.
 
santacruzpool said:
PG&E can tell with a smart meter if your output suddenly increases - which would show a bigger system - if you did a smaller incremental change I could see that being missed one time, but adding an amount you are talking about is a huge change.

I also think that a company (this can't be company policy really - but more a salesman who is trying to get a sale) suggesting you commit fraud (that is what it is) is pretty sketchy. PG&E, despite all of their problems, is a public utility, so you would be cheating the rest of us who are PG&E customers in California.
Click to expand...

Your point is well taken. So far on solarpaneltalk.com I have not been able to find anything negative about REC, seems like there are kind of middle of the pack. I have seen several posts saying solar panels are now pretty much a commodity, and that the extra cost you pay for SunPower is not really worth it.

So I'm really leaning toward option 2 now. The only issue concerning me is that those panels take up more space, and I might have issues with shading on a few areas they would necessarily need to extend into. The longer warranty is nice, but I don't really expect to be in this home longer than 10 years anyway.
 
scdaren said:
Your point is well taken. So far on solarpaneltalk.com I have not been able to find anything negative about REC, seems like there are kind of middle of the pack. I have seen several posts saying solar panels are now pretty much a commodity, and that the extra cost you pay for SunPower is not really worth it.

So I'm really leaning toward option 2 now. The only issue concerning me is that those panels take up more space, and I might have issues with shading on a few areas they would necessarily need to extend into. The longer warranty is nice, but I don't really expect to be in this home longer than 10 years anyway.
Click to expand...
In that case find out if the warranty is transferable. It can be Selling point when you decide to go
 
Not sure if it's just me... But I feel like that solarpaneltalk.com forum has a whole different kind of vibe than this place.
 
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