Sulfamic acid pool scale treatment - chlorosulfamate - combined chlorine

Any objections to riding out the sulfamic acid process with light bathing use?
I would wait it out.

As long as you are passing the OCLT, then the amount of sanitizing is probably fine.

If you had a lot of copper in the water, then a drain and refill would be best, but with no or low copper, then I would not worry about it.

What is the current CSI?
 
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Pool Math is a good choice to help manage and track the chemistry including the CSI.


Just go by the total chlorine (TC) instead of the FC and CC.

Periodically do an OCLT and increase the chlorine if you don't pass.

Over time, the CC will begin to diminish.

Chlorine combined with sulfamate is similar to chlorine combined with cyanuric acid.

There is an equilibrium where some of the chlorine is free to sanitize and the equilibrium keeps the amount of FC relatively constant.
 
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Pool Math is a good choice to help manage and track the chemistry including the CSI.


Just go by the total chlorine (TC) instead of the FC and CC.

Periodically do an OCLT and increase the chlorine if you don't pass.

Over time, the CC will begin to diminish.

Chlorine combined with sulfamate is similar to chlorine combined with cyanuric acid.

There is an equilibrium where some of the chlorine is free to sanitize and the equilibrium keeps the amount of FC relatively constant.
Pool Math is a good choice to help manage and track the chemistry including the CSI.


Just go by the total chlorine (TC) instead of the FC and CC.

Periodically do an OCLT and increase the chlorine if you don't pass.

Over time, the CC will begin to diminish.

Chlorine combined with sulfamate is similar to chlorine combined with cyanuric acid.

There is an equilibrium where some of the chlorine is free to sanitize and the equilibrium keeps the amount of FC relatively constant.
I’m on board, I download the app and I am now a subscriber. CSI is -.28.
 
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Since sulfamic acid combines with chlorine to form both N-chlorosulfamic and N-dichlorosulfamic acids, the effectiveness of the chlorine is reduced and the sanitizing properties are not well known.

The minimum recommended ORP for a pool is 650 mV.

So, an ORP of 629 is a little bit low.

The recommended dose of sulfamic acid is 10 lb per 10,000 gallons, which adds about 120 ppm sulfamic acid.

If we assume that the equilibrium for sulfamic acid is roughly equivalent to cyanuric acid, then the 7.5% ratio would indicate a TC of about 9 ppm for good sanitation.

Below is a quote from one study.

Approximately 1.000 mg/1 chlorine in the form of dichlorsulfamate would have to be established to achieve a 99 percent kill of E. coli in 1 min in the pH 7-8 range.


However, the study does not really go into equilibrium, which I think is a mistake.

They really need to know the ratio of sulfamic acid to chlorine and not just a combined chlorine reading.

In any case, one should be aware of the lowered effectiveness of the chlorine as far as providing sanitation.

For a low use residential pool, I think that the risk is low.

For a high use commercial pool I would probably drain and refill or SLAM.

Since you are getting an FC of 1 ppm, that is a good sign.

If you raise the TC to 9 ppm and if you can get the ORP to 650 mV, then that would be a good sign of sanitation.

Passing the OCLT is a good sign that there is nothing growing.

Having zero algae is also a good sign of adequate sanitizer since algae generally takes more chlorine to control than bacteria.

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@JamesW thank you for the next level research! This is consistent with my experience. I have been keeping my SWCG off because my CC levels have been above 6, but with this new information I will turn it back on.

I have used the SWCG in hot tub mode and achieved an ORP above 650. No alge.

Jacks Magic suggests waiting a week after balancing to SLAM, so I plan on trying that this Wednesday.

Thanks again!
 
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To be exact the pool is 26,300 gallons and i have added a total of 34 lbs of sulfamic acid.

It’s been 16 days since I added the initial 30 lbs of Jacks #2.

7 days into the treatment I added an additional 4 lbs of sulfamic acid (this time I used Suncoast Stop Stains - see below). There were some heavily scaled areas on my the sun shelf that needed spot treatment.
 

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At some point you should consider dilution and draining. Sulfamic acid will eventually breakdown into sulfates and ammonia. The sulfate ion stays in the water and we know that sulfates are very bad for cement surfaces as well as the catalyst coating on an SWG. Any scale formed will contain a mixture of calcium carbonate and calcium sulfate (gypsum) where the calcium sulfate scale will make it very difficult to remove.

Dilution through periodic replacement of water will help to lower the sulfate load.
 
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Thanks, I have have started diluting. Jack’s is suggesting I use Magenta stuff going forward. Is that a good option or is there another sequestering agent I should use while I go through the process of periodic dilution?
 

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That’s a good question. Jack’s number two is for Copper and Scale so I guess it’s their protocol to use the agent in case there is a copper issue, which I don’t have. I’ll discontinue using it. I guess I don’t need to use the Fiber stuff for the filter anymore, correct?
 
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At some point you should consider dilution and draining. Sulfamic acid will eventually breakdown into sulfates and ammonia. The sulfate ion stays in the water and we know that sulfates are very bad for cement surfaces as well as the catalyst coating on an SWG. Any scale formed will contain a mixture of calcium carbonate and calcium sulfate (gypsum) where the calcium sulfate scale will make it very difficult to remove.

Dilution through periodic replacement of water will help to lower the sulfate load.
Combined chlorine is gone so I am assuming the sulfamic acid has broken down.

I have been periodically diluting my pool to keep the sulfate load low. So far I have added 30,000 gallons to my 26,000 gallon pool. Is there any way to calculate how much diluting I need to do to avoid calcium sulfate scale?

The water table in my area of Florida is high and I don’t want to take the risk of completely draining the pool.
 
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