Stupid Aqualink RS Questions (also RS-485/Aqualink Simulator specialists chime in!)

[dfwnoob]

I apologize for what is likely to be a series of dumb questions or obvious observations.

So I only recently learned that this vintage of Aqualink RS system (installed 2006) is actually intended to have a controller that is supposed to be either wall-mounted somewhere OR in the form of a hand-held "PDA" or both. This makes sense as I've come to realize there is no way to program an Aqualink from the main control box. There is a gray Jandy "J-box" on the wall, which I understand to be the RF transceiver for the PDA. There is no control panel or PDA to be found anywhere. The old owner told me about how the system is currently set to run the pump for 6 hours a day. I didn't think to question how the automation knows what time it is or when to turn itself on. From what I'm reading, 6 hours also seems like it's not enough time to cope with hot Texas summers. I also would like to re-install a new gas heater at some point since the old owners just ripped the last one out when it broke down. Why you would do this with a spa is beyond me. Anyway, this leads me to some questions:

1. I assume the J-box does indeed indicate that there should be a PDA. There's nothing else that this thing is used for, correct?
2. If it IS for the PDA, how do I find one that is compatible with my system? I see a few revisions of the PDA when scouring fleaBay. Some are gray, some are blue, some say Jandy, some say Zodiac.
3. Can the various functions (heater, air blower, etc) be "coded" or programmed via the PDA or does this need some other programming method? Is this something that is coded at all or do the "programs" just tell it to activate certain relays?
4. There appear to be thermocouples on two of the pipes - is this how the system determines water temperature for heater functions?
5. If the system can't be fully programed or coded via the PDA, is there some "dealership tool" that is available? Think like the tools a dealership can use to turn features on your car on or off.

Something else I noticed, since I bought the house a month ago I thought the air blower pump for the spa was just broken. Pushing the "air blower" button in the Aqualink did nothing but turn the red light on. Turns out if you push the "heater" button, the air blower turns on. It seems they're using the "electric heater" output on the board to activate the air blower relay. No idea why. Also, the blower sounds like a jet engine taking off.. is that seriously how loud these things are?

I appreciate any guidance anyone can offer!

 

[stinsontx]

I apologize for what is likely to be a series of dumb questions or obvious observations.

So I only recently learned that this vintage of Aqualink RS system (installed 2006) is actually intended to have a controller that is supposed to be either wall-mounted somewhere OR in the form of a hand-held "PDA" or both. This makes sense as I've come to realize there is no way to program an Aqualink from the main control box. There is a gray Jandy "J-box" on the wall, which I understand to be the RF transceiver for the PDA. There is no control panel or PDA to be found anywhere. The old owner told me about how the system is currently set to run the pump for 6 hours a day. I didn't think to question how the automation knows what time it is or when to turn itself on. From what I'm reading, 6 hours also seems like it's not enough time to cope with hot Texas summers. I also would like to re-install a new gas heater at some point since the old owners just ripped the last one out when it broke down. Why you would do this with a spa is beyond me. Anyway, this leads me to some questions:

1. I assume the J-box does indeed indicate that there should be a PDA. There's nothing else that this thing is used for, correct?
2. If it IS for the PDA, how do I find one that is compatible with my system? I see a few revisions of the PDA when scouring fleaBay. Some are gray, some are blue, some say Jandy, some say Zodiac.
3. Can the various functions (heater, air blower, etc) be "coded" or programmed via the PDA or does this need some other programming method? Is this something that is coded at all or do the "programs" just tell it to activate certain relays?
4. There appear to be thermocouples on two of the pipes - is this how the system determines water temperature for heater functions?
5. If the system can't be fully programed or coded via the PDA, is there some "dealership tool" that is available? Think like the tools a dealership can use to turn features on your car on or off.

Something else I noticed, since I bought the house a month ago I thought the air blower pump for the spa was just broken. Pushing the "air blower" button in the Aqualink did nothing but turn the red light on. Turns out if you push the "heater" button, the air blower turns on. It seems they're using the "electric heater" output on the board to activate the air blower relay. No idea why. Also, the blower sounds like a jet engine taking off.. is that seriously how loud these things are?

I appreciate any guidance anyone can offer!

1 - 2. The presence of a J-Box (with antennae) would generally support that there should be a PDA. Have a look at the inside of the door on your primary control panel to determine the model, provide us a pic if you can. Ask the prior owner if his unit was lost or broken.
3. The PDA functions will generally correspond to the available circuits and relays in the RS control box. Some of the functions are fixed (ie, primary pool pump), the others will correspond to the AUX functions and what each individual AUX relay controls (example, water feature pumps, spa mode, air blower, equipment lamp, etc).
4. The thermocouples on the pipes are setup to read temperatures for pool or spa, there will also be an ambient air temperature probe hanging around.
5. You need to get a PDA and have it paired with your system, you can then have it setup and customized to your liking.
6. The heater/spa blower will most likely be sorted out when you get a new heater installed. On the Aqualink RS we have, the SPA mode is responsible for actuating the automatic control valves to isolate the spa. We then have to press "Heater" on the lower right to fire the Pentair Mastertemp, and also have to press "Air Blower" to turn blower on or off. In other words, you can have a nice hot tub soak without the blower pushing air through the hot tub.

Enjoy the pool and keep us posted what you find our about the PDA!

 

[ajw22]

It is not worth trying to obtain a PDA and try and make it work in your system. You should upgrade your system to iAqualink 3.0 which will give you a modern app user interface.

You can program everything on a PDA or the iAqualink app. It is much easier to do on the app.

The Aqualink has temperature sensors for ambient air and water. The air temperature sensor is used for freeze control. The water temperature sensor is used to control the heater to the desired temperature.

Something is miswired or mislabeled with your air blower. Post pics of your Aqualink with the front panel removed showing the relays and wiring.

More about your system at Jandy Aqualink RS - Further Reading

 

[dfwnoob]

I appreciate the replies, and thank you very much for that link to the Wiki, Allen!

That was actually very helpful because it led me to finding the Aqualink Simulator software for Windows. This would actually do exactly what I need it to do - program the routines on the controller, and it's only the cost of an RS-485 adapter. I actually had an RS-485 adapter that generally works, but for some reason it will NOT cooperate with that ancient Aqualink software. It would recognize that it was connected to an Aqualink, but none of the controls actually work. The TX light rarely blinked on the adapter, so it leads me to believe something is either wrong with the AL or the adapter.. $6 later I have a new one coming from Amazon to try out.

I did work out the air blower oddity. For some reason it's plugged into the Heater port on the control board. Easy enough to explain that one.

I'm largely trying to avoid putting big bucks into what amounts to 1990s-era automation systems. At $1100, the iAqualink upgrade is eye-wateringly expensive for my blood. I don't mind spending money, but that's nutty for what amounts to a ESP8266 and a board with a new ROM on it. I can get the simulator software to place nicely with the Aqualink and I can adjust the pump times and set up the heater when I get that back in place, I'll be a happy camper.

 

[dfwnoob]

Update - I actually got it to work - somewhat. If you launch the powercenter application, then launch the PDA application, it connects. Sometimes.. it has the same button layout as the real PDA and lets you scroll around the screen. I even got the all button panel application to work. As in I could go through the menus and set the time. It did allow me to review programming, of which nothing was programmed, but again, I'm not sure if this is because the software is janky or what. Either way, I do NOT have the luck that other people have had where it let them fully control the system from their PC. That will NOT work for me. I wonder if it's due to the revision of my board or what. Mine has to be fairly early as it only has one RS-485 header and doesn't have the RJ-11 "phone" jack for the service equipment.

The PC dock application shows the unit as being an RS4, which doesn't make sense.. it appears to be an RS8 as it has all of the additional auxillary circuit plugs on the board. When it's light out tomorrow I'll get some pictures and maybe pull the board to check the revision number on the back.

The PDA application didn't appear to offer any way to add, delete, or modify the programs, so I assume a real PDA would not either. The prior owner bought the place 1/2019 and never had the PDA, and I'm guessing he didn't care because it seems fairly useless.

 

[dfwnoob]

Okay, it's hard to figure stuff out with a lack of documentation, but I think I'm getting somewhere. The "PDA" app worked yesterday because I had the virtual power panel software running. I guess when you have them running together it truly is a "simulator". But it's also intended to work with just a pure RS-485 connection as other people on this board have had success with. Got a different RS-485 adapter and it's pretty much the same as yesterday. The "PCdock" application will detect that the Aqualink controller is online, and allows you to view the firmware version (shows as "PPD: PDA 1.2" - This confirms that it is interacting with the controller, I pulled the PCB and verified that matches the PPD in the 52 pin socket). Still no ability to control the panel. The virtual all button panel just says "Waiting for Comm". UNLESS you reset the Aqualink with it connected then it'll say "Received ENQ" after the unit reboots, but nothing further. This indicates to me that it's talking to it somewhat, but never getting any further.

This is happening on two different laptops with two different USB to RS-485 adapters (an "expensive" $20 one and the $6 one used in this thread). I think I can safely rule out my hardware. Can someone out there who has tried simply confirm whether or not they have successfully been able to control their Aqualink panel with any of the Simulator apps?

I found a very cheap Aqualink RS Service Controller online which plugs into the RS-485 data terminals, so hopefully that'll cure my "need to program" woes.. should be here next week.

 

[dfwnoob]

Got the Service Controller in the mail today, hooked it up.. nothing but the Revision number of the controller display and all the lights lit up, nothing works. I did the reset as described in the installation manual and on the wiki, no dice. I'm guessing something is wrong with my panel itself. This would explain why I could never get my PC to talk to the board.

Guess I'm stuck buying a new PCB anyway. Sigh.

 

[dfwnoob]

I ended up getting a new-in-box RS6 PCB (with PDA "CPU") for really cheap from a poorly listed eBay item. Installed it in my panel, and everything works.. except still no serial data. I'm at a loss. The Service Controller does the same thing with the new RS6 that it did with the old RS4 - just displays the revision ID of the Controller. While I suppose it's possible the brand new Service Controller is bad, that just seems really unlikely to me. I'm rather annoyed.

Maybe it's possible the PDA versions of the Aqualink won't talk to "in house" controllers (which the Service Controller is just a variant of)?

 

[dfwnoob]

And my theory was correct. I picked up a standard RS4 P+S PPD, threw it in my old PCB, put it back in the box, powered it up, connected the service controller and boom. Everything worked exactly as it was supposed to. I am happy to report I have now re-programmed the Aqualink to the times and settings I want, and all is good!

So lessons learned: PDA AQUALINK FIRMWARE (PPDs and CPUs) WILL NOT TALK TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN A PDA. If you have a PDA and want an all-button panel, you will need to pick one or the other and replace the PPD/CPU board.

Now with things turning on and off when I want them to, I'm a happy camper.